There’s always been a something of a whiff about postal voting in Tower Hamlets, yet the council consistently tells us there isn’t a problem. They point to the lack of prosecutions and boast of their stringent controls.
It’s all media muck-raking, they insist, the latest being this piece in the Sunday Telegraph.
So what are we to make of the following information given by the council to regular commenter Grenville Mills. He had asked for a breakdown of the postal vote returns for last week’s by-election in Spitalfields and Banglatown, which was won by Lutfur Rahman’s candidate G(h)ulam Robbani by 43 votes. The anecdotal evidence posted as comments on this blog suggested that Robbani was way ahead on the early postal vote returns. I’ve no idea if that was true or not.
The council, of course, is not able to say how the postal votes broke down but what they did say was this: there were 1,418 postal ballots issued and 956 were returned, a rate of 67.4 per cent. Of the 956 returned, 135 were rejected, a rejection rate of 14.1 per cent.
And here is the council breakdown of the 135 rejected (apologies for the formatting: I haven’t got to grips yet with how to format tables in WordPress).
|
No signature |
No date of birth |
No sign & no DOB |
Signature – No match |
DOB – No Match |
Sign & DOB – No match |
Valid PVS/ No BP |
BP/No PVS |
|
0 |
1 |
5 |
72 |
30 |
17 |
7 |
3 |
So what I hope you can see is that there were 119 postal ballots returned which did not have the correct signature and/or date of birth.
Depending on how much coffee I’ve had, there are times when my signature does look different, so the council scrutineers could just be doing their job understandably strictly. However, 119 is a pretty high number.
And it might just be my lack of understanding of the process, but I would have thought it a pretty easy task to track down who supplied those ballots and investigate what happened.
But no doubt the council and the police will say they have more important things to deal with…
Forgive me for bring slow, but if the majority was 43 and the number of iffy postal votes is 119, there should be questions raised. Of course voting is done in secret, so there is no way of knowing who those 119 iffy votes are for.
Ted, can you please remind us of some of the previous ‘slightly smelly’ postal voting incidents in Tower Hamlets?
Tim.
I’m sure the police will be looking into this Ted quite a few people came across inconsistencies. I’m quite shocked at the number of ballots disallowed but what I find even more worrying is that the council can reject based on a signature not ‘matching’ because that can change from time to time, pen etc. We have lots of people in the borough who can’t write/read who may struggle and I would have thought elderly people might struggle to get a exact match.
I do think the council should contact those people whose vote was disallowed they have a right to know that they were prevented from taking part in a democratic process. If they admit to sending it they’ve been legitimately prevented from taking part but if they didn’t then somebody may have stolen their vote.
You can trace postal submissions because your vote is in a different envelope to the one you send in and have you signed declaration in. The police would be able to tell that you attempted to vote just like at a polling station but they would not know who you voted for assuming they didn’t open the second envelope.
Wasn’t that what the Met Police said in response to allegations of phone hacking by the newspapers? Remind me how many people have now been arrested in connection with that “non-event” and how much money has now been spent on police operations, government committees and judicial inquiries which have all been set up to investigate rampant malpractice which was allegedly of “no consequence”? Sometimes people can get a judgement call badly wrong……
I seem to recall statements being made in previous LBTH elections that the number of votes that had been queried were of no consequence relative to the overall result. Well “they” certainly can’t say that this time…..
What’s the mathematical probability that the number of iffy postal votes had no relevance whatsoever to the result of the election?
Tim
Thank you for that.
Of greater concern than the reject rate of postal votes (14% compared to 0.7% for polling station votes) is the stark fact that 41% of votes cast were postal votes. That’s a huge percentage. We have to keep in mind that postal voting is stripped of the key controls administered by polling stations, e.g., there is no control to either prevent duress or enforce secrecy. Refer to Andrew Gilligan’s article; it provides potentially incriminating evidence, and sufficient grounds one would think, for a criminal investigation into the abuse of postal voting. Notwithstanding this, postal voting was essentially intended for those unable to get to the polling station. Are we to believe that 41% of those who voted in Spitalfields and Banglatown were unable to get to any of the three polling stations?!
The Electoral Commission does state that a person on the electoral roll does not need to state a reason for preferring to vote by post, however it goes on to say, voting by post is an easy and convenient way of voting ‘if you are unable to get to the polling station’. In my humble opinion this is a clear abuse of the postal voting facility.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, no record is maintained to show whether a vote for a particular candidate is received by post or polling station. At this stage we don’t know how many of the 1,030 votes cast for Gulam Robbani were postal. This is important in light of the foregoing, i.e., the postal votes should roughly match the proportionality of the overall vote distribution.A significant deviation would be a Red Flag in anyone’s book. Further, we have no record of the rejected votes received for a particular candidate and the same argument applies.
I am assuming the ‘probe’ ordered by the returning officer will scrutinise this data. However, to cover the unlikely possibility it doesn’t, I’m calling for it under a FoI request.
There is no doubt that postal vote rigging has taken place, it’s a common place in Tower Hamlets. I think Aminur Khan is a foolish character (I doubt many will disagree) and may end up in a lot of trouble. If the matter is pursued by Andrew Gilligan & co and there is further evidence, then there could be another by-election on the way soon.
It must surely be up to one of the parties contesting that election to raise concerns about the result. I would have thought the time for demanding a re-count would have been last Friday. If there were so many postal votes involved – I work it out as being 35% of the total vote – I too would have thought questions ought to be raised. I wonder how far they can forensically check these things… if for example there were many dodgy ones all signed by the same pen or there was “imprint” evidence they had been completed in a pile altogether… I would suppose the person who would have to decide whether to call in the police would be the Chief Executive Officer of Tower Hamlets who is also the Returning Officer… and he is that same man recently appointed by Lutfur Rahman… oh dear. The whole system is fundamentally flawed really isn’t it? It’s like asking George Bush’s brother to count the votes in Florida.
Tower Hamlets Should be put on Election special meausres. If it wasnt for postal votes, the results of the last 3 elections would have been vastly dfferent.
I am told that Gulam Rabbani was around 250 ahead in postal ballots, thats why they were really confident of winning the elections.
Robanni was certainly confident enough in advance of the election not to bother gracing the people of Spitalfields with his presence at the official election hustings meeting… or maybe he did not care a jot about their interests.
What does this mean for the Weavers By Election 3rd May 2012.
It’s obvious isn’t it!
If it’s obvious that tribal politics and wide-spread (postal) vote rigging will mean a clearly corrupt result then I’d agree.
Geoff, it means that the Labour machine (it ought to be a shoo-in) better get its act together – postal as well as polling booth voting – and really push hard. Or they will ose again.
“It was past the mid of a summer night in the old Jago. The narrow streets were all the blacker for the lurid sky; for there was a fire in a further part of Shoreditch, and the welkin was an infernal coppery glare. Below, the hot heavy air lay, a rank oppression, on the contorted forms of those who made for sleep on the pavement: and in it, and through it all, there rose from foul earth and grimed walls a close, mingled stink the odour of the Jago.”
Opening passage of ‘A Child From the Jago’ by Arthur Morrison, (1890)
The BBC or a lady with a camera crew claiming to be from the BBC are already investigating this.
My mate was telling me how this reporter, camera crew in-tow knocked on his nextdoor neighbours house (falls within the SBT ward), when no one opened the reporter decided to knock on the hous nextdoor which is my friends house and his mum opened the door, the reporter started quizzing her about the number of people who live nextdoor and when she replied that she don’t know and tried to close the door, the reporter stuck her foot in the door and kept asking.
His mum had to call his older brother to come and rightly tell the reporter to f*#k off!
She still didn’t want to leave and kept her foot in the door (persistant!) and kept asking saying that they must know how many people residing next door.
It’s fine to investigate as ther probably has been some fraud going on but you don’t pester innocent people…. I would have loved that reporter to try that with me…. she would have got a lot more than a f*#k off!!!
The reporter putting his or her foot in the door is such a cliche that it makes your account incredible, Sheraz. Reporters just don’t do that.
Unbelievable indeed, in the truest sense of the word.
Sadly what happened to another reporter who investigated the same thing a few years ago is a matter of public record.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-first-punch-came-landing-on-my-nose-sending-blood-down-my-face-1961464.html
Once again, I find myself reading and posting on this blog, wondering who (if anyone) is going to do anything about the despicable behaviour that goes on in LBTH. We have story after story about dodgy expenses, vote-rigging, exceedingly smelly business arrangements and so on and so forth, but who is in a position to investigate and bring sanctions against the perpetrators?
Tim
Wow!!!
Wasn’t somebody you knew was it???
You know what you should do – get your mate to report the reporter to the BBC. Your mate’s complaint would be upheld because putting a foot in the door is against all codes of ethics. Then come back on this blog once that’s done and give me the name of the reporter, who would also have left her name with your mate. Look forward to it.
@ Tim…. nice but Dim
Whats unbelievable Tim nice but Dim is that many months ago you promised you wont engage with me anymore as you did not want to entertain my comments.
Stick to your promises son… or you will end up being likened to Lutfur who breaks his ‘sweety’ promises to supporters.
Your posted story of a reporter getting beaten up for doing his job, and my point of a ‘if a reporter came knocking at my door, to harass me” in regards to obtaining information about someone else and them getting a kicking from me if they did not leave my property are two different things.
Now I wonder if you really did read my initial comment and I wonder whether you believe in violence or not, can see the difference their, because if you don’t… then you will have to permit me permission to carry on calling you ‘Tim nice but Dim’
PS – I’m going to call you it anyway but thought I be nice about it!
I cant imagine a BBC reporter to be so threatening, Sheraz just stop with your lies mate
@THpolitics…. you should change your name to ‘@shouldread properly’
‘claiming to be from the BBC’ – your not the only on here that I have had to spell out something slowly…. mate!
“The BBC ‘or’ a lady with a camera crew claiming to be from the BBC are already investigating this.”
I take it you lot should read the bit where I said ‘or’ claiming to be!
You lot, Including Ted are so quick to jump on anyone who seems like they dont agree with whatever the consensus on here is.
I agree with the potential of postal voter fraud, so I thought writing that bit would be like ‘blowing sunshine’ up all your arses!
Look – I know that you lot are miffed at what Lutfur has done – even with Ted’s ever so successful 2 years of blogging about it, the man keeps going on like a juggernaut and then you like to blame the local Bengali’s in voting for him (or not as the fraud may prove), but what did I say that goes against that…
What is the point of lying about it – does this post show support for Lutfur?
Does the post say there was no postal vote fraud?
So what am I trying to do here other that showing that people are investigating something commentators on here keep banging on about along with stating that the reporter was being over zealous.
Ted – are all reporters like a fraternity – you know, if someone does something to one, you all feel the pain, you got so offended that you could not conceive the notion it could be true…. Bloody hell half the stuff you write many have to conceive it’s true also, because with all the blogs, evidence…. your nemesis is still holding the throne probably laughing at you from his £116k office.
Now from the above you could conceive that I support Lutfur…. I don’t…. but love the thought of whatever Fishgills/Teddy throw at him, he manages to bat it right out the park and the anger that must consume you both… priceless!
Sheraz, I might be being unfair, but your account is not credible. TV crews don’t operate like that. I suggest you talk to your mate and ask him or her if it’s a tall story.
And Sheraz, you sound very much like someone I know on the council.
Hey Ted, i am sure Sheraz is the guy that works for One Housing, I think his real name is Harun Miah and his bossom buddy is the little good for nothing cartoon Cllr Maium (Laurel & Hardy).
@ Resident H… wow
Just because you think I work there I guess I must…. is this what it has come down to, absolute numpties trying to guess who others are.
I bet Resident H is actually a sock puppet for Ted….. there you go…. how does that suit you.
But I will give you some credit for getting the type of business right, not One Housing though you cretin, and not one based in the borough either…. did I mention you were a numpty/cretin…. apologies I did.
Ted
Some of your accounts and blogs are not credible either but you expect everyone who reads to swallow it!!!
My mate along with myself – are not council affiliated, my mate studies at uni and has a, I quote “part-time poxy supermarket job” – so there is actually not need for a tall story – I am actually really interested in why you think it’s a tall story because I really cannot fathom a reason why it would help dis-credit you, or support Lutfur?
I don’t work or have anything to do with the council other than having a staunch Labour cllr, who absolutely loathes Lutfur as a friend.
See – your comment of “you sound very much like someone I know on the council” makes it seems like you divinely know everything, when many of your blogs carried numerous biased and at times, in-accurate details, but it makes people think you are right in what you say all the time
Please don’t insult me by saying I maybe someone from the council because majority of Lab/Con/Lib/Indi cllrs are so thick, that it hurts me to say they are Bengali.
Honestly – I know I may have ripped the p*ss out of you with the above – but can you give me an explanation of why a reporter CLAIMING to be from the BBC is such a tall story and what would be the reason behind it???
Does anyone understand what exactly Sheraz is on about and who is earning £116 000?
From that I take it your from the same ilk as@THpolitics and do not read properly!
£116k was the apparant cost of the office refurb that Lutfur undertook, not how much is being paid.
And if you wana’ know what ‘mans’ on about.
Do something that requires you to be able to comment properly in response… and that is to read original comment fully.
Does anyone have any information about the abortive meeting to choose a new Chief Executive? It seems that Lutfur was backing his placeman Aman Dalvi but couldn’t get the number of votes required.
Check out Mr Dalvi on http://www.company-director-check.co.uk. He seems ato have been involved in a number of property companies.
Sheraz, so the reporter claimed she was from BBC, if she was than ofcourse she would do so.
What a joke you are mate.
How much you earning from the mayors advisory role, or you promoting your self here to get one. Their is a vacancy in adult health.
With a name like fun fair I can’t be your mate you t*#t!
And a big t*#t you are as whether I am lying or not… you tell me th reason how that lie would benefit Lutfur or a lutfurite???
Even your idol Ted didn’t answer that question and yet has to.
How does a story of a reporter with heavy handed tactics warrant a resell as such as your stating I work/support the mayor?
What does that story do to help Lutfur’s cause???
It is a very simple question…. but for someone who calls themselves fun fair…. you belong on the crazy t-cup rides you numpty!
This event with the investigator/journalist is true and whether she is from the BBC which she claimed I don’t know. I guess she must be desperate for a good story. She was asking my brother “how people live next door” and my brother replied ” f*** off “. She asked “is there 8 people living next door” and my brother replied ” get your foot out of my door you nosy c**t before I slam my door on it”. She replied “asshole” and walked off.
Thanks. Did she leave her name and introduce herself? Has your brother complained to the BBC?
[…] the votes cast in last week’s byelection were postal. And that’s after 135 postal ballot papers were rejected by the counters, mainly because of doubts over their […]
Dead people always voted in tower hamlets, it’s a very spiritual area. In mayoral election, the unborn will vote, all you need is 30 pieces of silver per vote.
She did not introduce herself with a name to my knowledge.
My mum initially opened the door who speaks little English so called my brother to speak to her.
She was dressed in a suit, with her a bloke carrying a big microphone and another with a camera, before my brother told her to F off he asked whether the filming will be shown on TV she replied no, so a bit weird with all that equipment to say it won’t be shown.
No complaint made, not just cos of no name but to be honest, don’t think my brother or I would have made a complaint, what’s the point I rather sort it myself if she was to be more rude.
I’m fairly surprised that can’t be seen as believable when Sheraz told me about it, can’t see the point in making up something like that.
They went onto knock on my other neighbours house after, they got the same response as my brother gave but through the window
Well, BBC reporters would always introduce themselves as such and they would be polite. Most reporters are polite. In fact, would you give information to a reporter who wasn’t? Think about it.
Despite what you think or may have read, the BBC doesn’t have thousands of journalists carrying cameras at will around the UK. There are a limited number. If it was the BBC, then it can only have come from the BBC News team (london or national) or from a documentary such as Panorama.
So it shouldn’t be hard for the BBC to track down this alleged rude reporter. So I would put in a complaint (you say what’s the point but you’re complaining on this blog!) and let me know how you get on.
Ted
Was he complaining????
Or was he just stating something you for some reason find so hard to believe hence why he decided to write on here?
Suttle difference.
The only complaint I can see is the one where he finds it hard that he would make this up!
I’m complaining though…. still would like you to find it in your heart somewhere to give me a feasible explanation to why it would be a tall story?
Well, if he hasn’t complained to you or on this blog, what’s the problem? But I know I’d have a problem if a BBC reporter put their foot in my door. It’s against all codes of ethics and a disciplinary offence. That’s why I find that part a tall story if I’m honest.
Who benefits from lying?
You have to remember no one complained…. I just stated something on your blog, in relation to the then current blog.
Does that mean anyone who comments in the blog are complaining???
To highlight investigations are going on, no complaining or moaning, only ‘mooing’ was by you because your feelings were hurt that a reporter could be over zealous, BBC or not!
So once again, who benefits from such a tall story,,,, What’s the agenda???
Sigh. Ok, Sheraz. No one complained.Not even the guy who told the reporter to fuck off. Have it your way.
People have all kinds of motives for telling tall stories in my experience. I have no idea what might have been the motive in this case.
But if a journalist has put her foot in the door, that reflects badly on my profession and I’m the one complaining. So get your friend to report it.
Finally (bigger sigh than yours)
Why we had to do the old east end waltz before coming to this.
Along with attracting stupid idiotic comments from absolute cretins who you have a responsibility for as you’re their role model…
….ooooo your favourite cannon fodder shirajul hoque is on TV!!!!!!
Just listened to a piece on Radio 5 live (5 Live Drive) where a woman from that station doorstepped someone in the Brick Lane area and they played a piece of the interview. Basically the interviewer knows that 7 (maybe 8 I can’t remember) people voted from that address and she asks the female Asian how many people are registered their to vote – to paraphrase she says “4 -but some of my brothers pop in so maybe they voted too?”
When pressed on specifics, she becomes defensive and the interview is terminated. It should be on their pod cast.
BTW I got an text from a council employee YESTERDAY who I was supposed to lunch with, but text me this to cancel:
“Been called in by xxx ( a high ranking council officer) to do postal votes All bloody day – typical get 1/2 hours lunch – slave drivers!”
When I text back to see if Lunch is still possible, they text back this:
“Nightmare: Till 5:30 OPENING envelopes.”
MMMMMMMM…………………………..??????
V interesting.
Also, I love that council employees find it a nightmare to have only 30mins for lunch and to work until 5.30pm! Yes, bloody cruel slave drivers.
Mohbub
The BBC Reporter would have been Allegra Stratan, as it seems she was at Tower Hamlets this week.
Can you confirm that she held the door with her feet, can you confirm Sheraz’s story. If so than I am sure Ted jeory and others can make a complaint.
We also know now, that Postal Vote fraud are being investigated, Think they should start with all the rejected ones and try to find those people’s.
Course he can confirm my story…. cos he is the one who bloody told me in the first place…. and if you read the comments, he actually already confirmed it – READ A FEW COMMENTS UP!!!!
Honestly – I am astounded by the lack of basic common sense of some commentators who seem not to read comments fully and are just ‘trigger happy’ to jump on anyone who remotely says anything that might be against the grain
Sheraz. Could you actually tell us what point you are making about the TV interviewer who may or may not have put here foot in someone’s door? I have been following this and am at a complete loss as to what to make of your postings.
You need to ask Ted et al to explain that.
But let me give you a simple breakdown.
1 – the blog was about postal vote fraud
2 – I wrote a comment about how the press (be they BBC or whoever) were starting to sniff around and investigate this due to my friends house and others being visited recently
Before I carry on number wise would you agree that so far, there is nothing wrong with the above?
3 – I went onto describe how the people with camera crew in-tow CLAIMING to be BBC were a little heavy handed and that if that happened to be, I would had been ahem, more forceful in getting them off my property.
Now the ‘confusion’ you are undergoing currently is from how Ted basically says the reporters would never do that, by footing the door etc and said I or my friend (who commented yesterday to give the account) are making it up!!
This is where the back and forth started.
So to clarify because I do not want to add to your madness, I just simply stated something that happened, to which it was challenged to be a lie with no foundation.
And it has recently become apparant that the BBC and other press, have in fact, been going around knocking on houses to investigate fraud.
I asked Ted and other boot lickers on here to explain what the reason behind making up a story like that would be, but like other instances, Ted does not answer because evidently, after many messages he admitted that he cannot fathom a reason why.
This lead to a number of people on here to comment without actually reading things fully or actually comprehending what I was saying.
Like yourself – you could not differentiate a clear statement of an office costing £116k and you thinking someone was getting paid £116k.
Simply read.
So going back to your original question, the main point I made was to point out that the press are now starting to investigate fraud, nothing else but Ted turned it into a personal attack on his profession and had his feelings hurt when it was stated that not all reporters are clean cut and could be rude… and look where it has got to now!!
I wonder how hurt Ted was when all the phone hacking stuff came out and if he believed NOTW were all innocent.
If my slight comment of a over handed reporter caused him to flip, he must have had a breakdown when his peers were in the dock over hacking.
I still doubt you have been able to understand that it was Ted who started all this but hey, you probably don’t call yourself a mad mullah for nothing!
East End Life, Sunday 29 April, “…..The police have also confirmed that there is no substance to the allegations made so far”.
Where do we go from here, when the Council categorically deny irregularities; irregularities that are abundantly clear to the electorate?
I suggest (referring to the cross post ‘MoD Misslies in Bow’), the HVM system is homed to the offices of EEL – how many shots do we have? – and the TH Cabinet Office.
BBC News – Metropolitan Police probes Tower Hamlets fraud claims
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17901429
PLUS
Evening Standard – Watchdog attacked over voter fraud
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/london/watchdog-attacked-over-voter-fraud-7697304.html
I had it with these people! In all respects……
http://mayorlutfurrahman.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/bangladesh-olympic-delegation-arrive-in-london/
Greeting a delegation hoping to win?
Arghhhh they never even qualified…….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_at_the_Olympics
Crumbs. Surely this is worthy of a blog article all of it’s own Ted?
Tim.
What’s wrong with him greeting them? I wish them best of luck as well. If they perform well and are well-supported, hopefully it can inspire kids back in Bangladesh.
Fair cop – I misread the Wikipedia article and understood that Bangladesh wouldn’t be competing at all in the 2012 games. I am assuming that the word “representatives” means “competitors” then? Apologies for my misunderstanding.
None the less, I do find myself wondering why we are paying for support of a no-hoper team, which is nothing to do with our country. Shades of the ‘Cricket Test’ seem to be relevant; if integration is desirable why is the ‘large Bangladeshi community’ feteing a failed team from the other side of the world?
I suspect it is more a matter of ensuring that money passes into exclusively ethnic Bangladeshi hands, to borrow a phrase from another contributor on here.
Best wishes to the Bangladeshi team, yes. But with some very strict limits – limits which should have cut in before tax-payers money is spent.
Tim.
Not sure where I fit in then. I’m English but grew up in Wales so support Wales in rugby. I support England in football.
And I support Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, India and Australia when the play cricket against England. Much of the time.
I’m from Nepal, but the fact that my country of origin is as hopeless at Olympic games as the Bangladeshis is irrelevant; England is my home country and my allegiance is to it, in sport and all other matters. The moment that allegiance is in doubt is the moment I should expect England to expel me.
I’d strongly suggest that the ‘large Bangladeshi community’ would do well to adopt the same attitude. Sadly, it seems that the integrity of these people is not a match for my own.
Tim.
P.S. Ted, I’d suggest that your support of Bangladesh at cricket relates something about your mental state that national allegiance. I mean, really? Are you serious? I can understand having a soft spot for an underdog, but that’s just madness!
Yes despite not qualifying they are able to compete thanks to a wild card process…….
We are paying for their support cos they are Lutfur’s countrymen….
Sad and sick at the same time……
Taxpayers money are wasted left right and centre
http://www.towerhamletshomes.org.uk/decent_homes.aspx
Only those on benefits get the total house makeover.
I need a new bathroom too. Unfortunately have to pay for it myself.
Kay