The commenter Sheraz on this post here makes the following point about Anjem Choudary and his not-so-merry band of Muslims Against Crusades:
Did anyone, or has any see/heard of those poppy burner prats were at the counter EDL march?
The reason I ask is that they are partly to blame for EDL wanting to come to TH and I was very angry not to see them on the day to, they can pull off media attracting stunts but when they really needed, no where to be seen.
There are rumours surfacing that they may have become tools of the establishment, not sure if there is any truth to this but if they going help start something, they need to be there to face the consequences.
His last sentence gives even the more fanciful conspiracy theories a bad name.
That said, he raises an interesting point because he recognises partly what fuels the EDL. Today, September 11, Anjem will lead a MAC march to the US Embassy in Grosvenor Square. If past marches are anything to go by, the EDL will be there to greet them.
In researching this piece for the Sunday Express (you need to get past the tabloidised Royal Wedding stuff for the substance), I spent a fair amount of time watching who went in and out of the MAC basement office in New Road and into the Master Printers Shop above.
This place in New Road, Whitechapel, is Anjem’s headquarters and the familiar faces at the front of the periodic demos congregate there.
It is right in the heart of Tower Hamlets.
Here’s a thought: why don’t Sheraz and ordinary grassroots people in Tower Hamlets organise a large demo outside their office to say that like the EDL they’re not welcome in this borough either.
What a message that would send to the EDL. Given that Anjem’s lot despise the East London Mosque (Shah Jalal Hussain was scathing about how it had “betrayed Muslims” when I spoke to him), the IFE stewards would, I’m sure, be willing to help police the protest.
I’m just surprised the likes of United East End and Unite Against Fascism haven’t suggested this themselves..
Now there is a protest I might consider joining.
Are these the same group that just burned a US flag today 10/11 outside the US Embassy in London and were involved in the stabbing of two people there, as per the news today?
Indeed
http://www.demotix.com/news/826626/edl-members-stabbed-edgware-road-london-after-911-clashes
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/muslim-protesters-burn-american-flag-on-911-anniversary-in-london/story-e6freuy9-1226134576561
http://www.demotix.com/photo/826838/mac-clash-edl-route-us-embassy-london-central-mosque
The UAF will protect MAC and prevent a demonstration in E1 against them by denouncing anyone who even discusses the subject as “an islamophobe” and “a fascist”.
They’ll also threaten to attack with lethal violence anyone attempting to demonstrate on the day.
This is because the UAF/SWP are actually working with MAC… they have found common cause in wanting to destroy this country
As I said on your previous post there are more fascist groups gathering in TH than the EDL could dream of. MAC, UAF (now a misnomer for thugs looking for a fight) SWP and of course the new muslim “Brown Shirts”. Could this be the start of the UK’s first no-go area? Or would it be “can’t go area” for your normal non-extremist Brit (Englishman) as the police seem quite complicit in the way things are developing.
No more demonstrations or protests in this are please. Not from the far right, the far left or the fart face anjum’s lot. Leave us in peace all you opportunistic self centered nationalists, communists, religious and ‘community activist’ bigots.
Next time someone calls a demonstration in my area, I hope the route takes them through my road so I can piss on their placard from the window of my flat. Don’t care if imam, the priest or the good rabbi himself is holding the placard.
I think it’s worth pasting here the series of comments between me ad Sheraz that relate to this topic but which have been posted on ‘EDL demo – over to you’ thread:
Sheraz:
Did anyone, or has any see/heard of those poppy burner prats were at the counter EDL march?
The reason I ask is that they are partly to blame for EDL wanting to come to TH and I was very angry not to see them on the day to, they can pull off media attracting stunts but when they really needed, no where to be seen.
There are rumours surfacing that they may have become tools of the establishment, not sure if there is any truth to this but if they going help start something, they need to be there to face the consequences.
September 11, 2011 at 10:30 amSheraz
Even though I’m not fond of them, I’m all about as accurate reporting/commenting as possible.
The building they are housed in has nothing to do with tax payers money, his brother who is quite well off and a businessman had bought that property outright for Anjem, while he uses the top part for his own printing business (that last bit needs to be added with an ‘I think’).
The government contracts bit relating to his Learndirect centres, really and truly do not have anything to do with MAC.
Dani, Anjem’s brother, is first and foremost a business man and his training centres which people from the local JCP’s got sent to on a whole host of training were good for local jobseekers.
So linking all that to the dim wit poppy burners was a bit of sensationalist reporting again from the anti-Muslim brigade.
My point is I believe the British government want all this anti-Muslim sentiment by allowing the likes of MAC to do what they have been, forget human rights, if they behave the way there are, then deport them, that way, EDL dont have anything to whinge about.
Suspicions about MAC now being paid ‘staff’ for MI5/Police have surfaced because a former member has been telling anyone who would listen, that the reason he left the group is because Anjem had been regularly attending ‘meetings’ with certain figures and people in the local community have been noticing that they have been quite quiet recently, laying low.
Whatever the case, bang them up, deport them or whatever as it’s the British government who need to do their job and not be asking so called ‘moderate’ Muslims to do it for them!
on September 11, 2011 at 1:10 pmSheraz
To your comment about building an Islamic centre, I will reply like a childish pre-pubescent would reply…. “so”.
There is a new Islamic teaching centre opposite that opened up, the Tayyibun centre opened last year or year before that one, why don’t you comment about those, all of them on the same road.
Of course he knew about what his brother is like, so much so his official business name to clients is Dani and not his real name, also he tried his best to hide the fact who his brother was to an ex colleague of mine when they were discussing a small local contract.
So before you assume anything Ted, ask before you state something, because no where did I state that Dani never knew what his brother is famous for, my point was that of the words, taxpayer and that paying for Anjem’s activitiesand how that line of reporting was a bit far fetched.
Do you want me to break it down for you a little more.
As for me protesting against HT and MAC, as I said, why should us Muslims to the job for the state, the way we protest against the likes of them is by educating our kids and friends that groups like these do harm, which is why HT has lost so many supporters throughout the years.
MAC hardly has any, so the British government should do their job and kick them out.
Maybe the EDL, instead of wanting to provoke us and march through Whitechapel, instead of aiming it’s hatred against the Mosque, should have planned to hold a protest in front of the very building that houses the man Tommy Twat Robinson speaks so much about in New Road.
So Ted and et al, I suggest you wake up, smell the wheat grass or whatever fad you maybe into that fuels your undercurrent tones and start lobbying Cameron to be more harsh on the likes of those who you mention, after all, if HT is banned in some other European countries, why not the UK???
edit this on September 11, 2011 at 1:37 pmtrialbyjeory
If Dani is so embarrassed by his brother’s activities, why did he buy a building for him and then go along with his plans for an Anjem-style teaching centre? How was Dani able to afford that building?
Are you sure that no Anjem/MAC leaflets and stickers are not designed or produced anywhere in that building, which includes Dani’s Master Printers. And Dani knew about Shah Hussain’s background when he hired him. Those are facts.
And what exactly do you mean by “the Government should do their job and kick them [MAC] out”?
edit this on September 12, 2011 at 11:09 am | ReplySheraz
OK – FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOU TED AND SOME OTHER LIKE PAUL W.E WHATEVER (I CAN THINK OF SO MANY THINGS THE W.E. STANDS FOR BUT FOR ANOTHER TIME HEY) I WILL WRITE THIS IN CAPITALS.
PLEASE FOLLOW:
– I POSTED A SARCASTIC COMMENT OF WHERE MAC WERE ON THE DAY OF THE EDL MARCH ETC.
– BLUE DWARF RESPONDED WITH A COMMENT WHICH INCLUDED
“They were probably in their taxpayer funded office in New Street E1″
– TO WHICH, I REPLIED BACK TO SIMPLY CORRECT HIM/HER THAT THE BUILDING IS NOT FUNDED BY TAXPAYERS MONEY, AS YOU KNOW TED, IM ANAL ABOUT CERTAIN FACTS BEING TWISTED.
That my esteemed colleague, was the only point I was referring to at the comment.
You decided to go off on a tangent and start going off on one. Firstly, am I not correct in saying that Anjem’s ‘den’ in New Road is not funded by the taxpayer???????????????????????????????
Now getting to the point of Yazdani (Dani) of course he knows what his brother is up and would be/will be up to when he bought the property (this part kind of anwers my qustion above dont you think?), I myself stated that he would keep his connection to Anjem away from potential contacts.
So from me correcting a simple point that I did, I have no idea where you got from that I support Dani in his so called ignorance of his brothers actions, what you did was jump to a conclusion without properly reading my comment – whipped some bloke with initials that sound like he has a wee in his name into agreeing with you by saying he would have said the same, but as you did it for him no need to, probably because he was having a wee and could not get to the keyboard which is the real reason he could not be bothered to type – and carried on with your diatribe.
As for your last question of kicking MAC out – the government should do more against the likes of MAC, imprison them for enciting violence, or deport them, or curtail their benefits…. something, but this doing nothing keeps adding to the anti-Muslim sentiment, sometimes, which I think is being done on purpose, consiparcy theory or no conspiracy theory.
NOW I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING I USED TO DO WITH ANOTHER COMMENTATOR ON HERE, THINK HE WAS CALLED PERSONAL POLITIX OR SOMETHING, I HAD TO REPEAT AND BATTER HOME TO HIM TIME AND TIME AGAIN…
I do not support MAC or his brother (which I clearly stated in my first point), I just wanted to point out a fact regarding taxpayers money.
Please do not let me have to re-type this again but just in case, I have highlighted, Ctrl+C and ready to hit that Ctrl+V.
on September 12, 2011 at 12:12 pm Sheraz
From your first paragraph you are really tempting me to use that Ctrl+V combination!!!
Why dont you go to the Learndirect Centre in Whitechapel and ask Dani yourself – that was never my point (I’m starting to repeat myself and dont want to copy and paste as I save that for special occasions)
So what do you suggest we do with the likes of MAC????
They need to know how to finesse the media and talk normally to try and get their point across, instead, they go all out ‘raw’.
Enciting is not the way, so if they are British citizens, then punish them somehow, if they are not British citizens, then deport them.
That way, the likes of the EDL wont have any excuse to drink a couple of more cheap cans of cider and look like idiotic cavemen on TV, waving the Israli flag, with half of them not knowing the flag of the country they are waving, or why they are supporting the country in the first place!!!
Ted – why should I protest in New Road, why dont you go and do it, organise something through your blog or paper, what are you afraid of?
MAC being idiotic and stupid true, but they have not thrown disgusting comments about my God and Prophet, they are not going around assualting women in headscarfs on the underground, they not coming in front of my local Mosque and hurling abuse.
EDL did and do those things so I will protest and protect my people… of all colours and races from them.
What MAC are doing is giving us Muslims a bad name yes, but many Muslims, those who you would call moderate actually understand the anger and where the sentiments stem from, BUT TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THE WAY THEY GO ABOUT IT, so you wont get many who would really protest against them….. and do the job for the government for them.
We dont want them around, nor do you, so lobby the government.
I will protest and protect those from people attack my religion, who are dumb enough to think 2 million Muslims from a collective country of around 60 million could ever impose Sharia law in the UK, who call on my religion to be outlawed blah blah blah.
on September 12, 2011 at 1:50 pm Sheraz
Just like being un-PC is seen as racist, discussing why MAC do what they do is apologist – there is alway a mirror to what right wingers say and do, to what Muslims do end of.
As for them being experts, just shows how dumb some parts of the media are, why give them their 15 minutes in the first place, thats what they want, maximum coverage to spout their crap.
As for hurling abuse, what have they said about God Ted? bearing in mind that Allah translated means God, so when the dumb EDL’ers hurl disgusting comments about Allah, they do not realise they are just insulting God in Hiself, which could be their God (By God just stating that last fact made me realise how dumb EDL twats are, even though I knew this from before).
Now homophobic – that you are correct but again, they need to know how to convey what they are saying in a less raw form, which will still not sit well with you.
Homosexuality is not allowed in my religion, end of, no discussion, no “but Syed from Eastenders is Muslim and gay so why cant it be right”
I’m not going to apologise for what my religion states and what I believe, this can go to Peter Thatchell – you cannot be gay and Muslim, you choose which one and you live with it happily.
NOW I DO NOT CONDONE OR SUPPORT ANY ATTACKS OR KILLING OF GAY PEOPLE!!!!!
This is the UK and we live by the laws of the land, if you are gay, then live and let live I do not have a say or push my religion into you, do what you got to do.
I do not have a problem with homosexuality, but what MAC do is go extreme in a country that the majority will not agree with, but still say enciteful things.
Some people here may confuse me for a sell out, some may think I have extreme views, but have faith in my religion and adhere to it while adhering to the UK laws and the way fo life.
That may raise some eyebrows but I do not care, as I said I’m no apologist for anyone nor do I apologise for my religion.
If MAC were do say it like the above, maybe they my have more listeners wiling to engage and then make their minds up after, but they just a bunch of silly hot heads.
You think I’m confused, but an hour with me and you will get a btter understanding of why certain people think the way they and and how extreme Muslims really are on certain aspects of life.
You and your readers always get confused by hearing things from Muslims who have other agendas, for example the who Lutfur rubbish, you have Helal Abbas supporters who feed you and your readers fear about Sharia, to basically take pot shots at their political enemy.
You then have people like the Quilliam Foundation, who by the way is governmen funded, and started up by a bloke who did not win a leadership campaign within HT (Ed Hussain), so got pissed off and started to warn people of extremem Muslims.
The above probably does not apply to you, but is an example of how people use people like you to attack their opponents for what is at the end, for their own personal gain…. and what gets a kickng as a result….. Islam.
Now going to the question of would I want Sharia law in the UK – I would like to know what your take is on Sharia law first, is it the part which anti-Muslim media focus on, the stoning, the lashing or is it the part where cases of family disputes, divorces etc are involved?
Im not sure if this is true, but I read somewhere certain aspects os Sharia are already in operation int he UK for Muslims who wish to be guided by it, maybe you could confirm this for me.
My personal view is that for certain aspects like I mentioned of family proceedings, divorce proceedings, civil litigation, then if both parties of Muslim faith wish to be directed under it, then maybe this option could be available.
Not for any criminial activity or serious crimes.
PLEASE READERS take heed of what I just stated, I do not agree Sharia to be imposed on anyone, nor for stoning or lashing, just available for civil cases and for both parties to agree.
But I’m not going to cry about it if the option is not there.
You still did not confirm my one and only point I wanted to make, one that you bypassed and just went into this whole debate that you have heard before. do you agree that Anjem’s building is not being funded by the taxpayer – you do realise this was all that I was making a point of??
And lastly, NO – I will not join a protest against MAC because the only problem they are causing is creating a negative view of our religion…. something the general media has been doing before member of MAC started to grow their beards, so if I protest against them, I will bloody have to protest against Fox News, News International, I suppose you can guess where I am going with this.
Not knowing either of you guys I would like to say I feel Sheraz has given a good account of himself and has under repeated taunts from Ted stuck to what i see as a sensible take on MAC and their cronies.
I found the whole 9/11 protests very dispiriting. There seems something odd that people are allowed to protest with their faces covered.
So MAC were involved in this???? A peaceful protest? “Burn Burn USA”, “Islam will dominate the world”?? Are they a “peaceful” organisation??
I didn’t see many arrests from the anti-USA contingent???
The EDL are threatening to return to Tower Hamlets, Ted:
http://englishdefenceleague.org/tower-hamlets-the-return/
They want to hold their protest outside the East London Mosque. Other inciting reasons provided by the EDL being MAC; the coach incident etc.
MAC should not have been allowed to do what they did, exactly why EDL are hi-jacking what they did to further their cause. The government should do something about it.
The below comment on many peoples Facebook pages during 11/9 says it all, I completely agree with it and it’s the message that MAC, in their twisted abhorrent way, was trying to portray…. if only they all stayed home and put it up on all their Facebook status comments, they would have done us all a favour:
“You remember 911 but you don’t remember america constantly bombing muslim countries,killing children and women in the process just for their own selfish gains.
You remember 911 yet you don’t remember the massacre of 8000 muslims in bosnia.
You remember 911 but you don’t remember an estimated 2million palestinians killed since 1948
we all remember 9/11 with sorrow but its also just another chapter in the story”
Ted –
the EDL are using the coach incident (as well as MAC) to justify their plan to protest outside the East London Mosque. The EDL say:
“That the decision to arrest the 44 EDL members on the coach that was attacked in Tower Hamlets was an unwise decision, at least without then issuing a clear statement explaining that the arrests were made for their own protection. Without this clear statement it appeared that the victims of this attack were in some way responsible for having their coach pelted with missiles or for a female member of their party being pulled from the coach and assaulted whilst she lay on the ground.”
Please could you write your promised story on the EDL coach incident? The EDL are exploiting this and now it is one of their 3 points on which they want the govt to agree with them – or else they protest here in Tower Hamlets. The inaccuracies, lies, misinformation, “black propaganda,” call it what you will, that has been spread by the EDL about this coach incident has now led to this. Any hope that you will be telling Tower Hamlets residents what you have found out, Ted? What is the real truth of what happened when that EDL coach was travelling through Whitechapel, past the East London Mosque?
(I’m reposting this here as Sheraz missed it on the other thread that I had originally posted this on. Hopefully, I’ll get a response.)
anon1
Sheraz, while I don’t think this is quite the best place for a theological discussion, what makes you say that “you cannot be gay and Muslim”?
Have you based on this on your own understanding of Islamic scripture? Or is this what you’ve heard and just accepted as the truth?
I’m going to go with the latter – given the number of people who I know who are LGBT and Muslim. You do realise it’s not mutually exclusive? One is a sexuality (which many argue isn’t chosen anyway) and the other is a belief in God – practised in a particular way.
Educate yourself on the issue rather than parroting what you’ve heard elsewhere. You may want to start here: http://imaan.org.uk/
Have you stopped to ask yourself why someone would “choose” to be gay given the abuse, rejection, stigma, violence and – in some parts of the world – death, that accompanies such a “choice”.
Your posts usually give me some food for thought. But this one…
[b]Sheraz
To Anon1
I read your comment last night and was going to post a reply via my phone and was going to be my usual chirpy self, but I didnt, reason being I thought this reply deserved a full 100% keyboard moment and not through a phone that when I would try at times try to type burglary, would come up with buggery (realising that last word and on the subject I am commenting about now, seriously no pun intended)
Anyway to the point, I wanted to take the time to respond as after this, I will not be willing to engage with yourself anymore.
I take my perception of homosexuality from what I have been taught through many people and what I have read and understood my from the Holy Qur’an, so your comment of being a parrot flies right out the birdcage, DO NOT TRY TO RIDICULE MY UNDERSTANDING AND THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS UNDERSTANDING ON THIS MATTER.
You throw me a website link thinking I will change my mind, luckily, I cannot do the same with the Qur’an and ‘chuck’ it at you as I have respect for it and its teachings.
I am going to say once again, if you are a Muslim and you decide to act on your desires, then you re-nounce Islam, just like certain sects of Islam re-nounce our Prophet Moahmmed (pbuh) – they automatically reject themselves from Islam.
When I was growing up I always knew homosexuality, in my religion is not accepted and never will be, no matter how much groups such as yours, try to pull the ‘old testament, new testament’ move of changing the words of God to suit with the times.
That does not work with the Qur’an – you may have interpreted some scriptures in the Qur’an to suit your own choice in life and lifestyle, but that’s not how it works.
Anyway – as this is not the place or blog to discuss this as I could go on and on – but if you yourself are homosexual while trying to practise Islam, then I honestly do hope that you search within and pray that you can stay away from the life you have chosen and decide to follow our religion correctly.
The above statement again may make some people angry, but as I stated before, I make no apologies for my religion.
If you are not Muslim then I would appreciate you not trying to teach me about what the majority of worlds Muslim population believe and adhere to.
(Right now I feel like that episode of Friends where Chandler tries so hard to hold in his sarcastic replies and jokes….. really hard to be serious)
OK – so who here is going to try and deny or confirm the very first point I made, a very trivial point to Blue Dwarf that a certain building is not funded by the taxpayer… any takers as I am fed up of the direction that simple comment has taken, Ted being the main instigator and now look where it has got to![/b]
anon1
My religion (be it Islam, another or none) is irrelevant. I’ve taken time to study the Qur’an, hadith and seerah under a wide range of teachers (including some from the ELM/LMC!) and reached an understanding – one that I’m not alone in.
Sheraz said, “I am going to say once again, if you are a Muslim and you decide to act on your desires, then you re-nounce Islam…”
Based on what? What is it to be a Muslim? The only condition for someone to be a Muslim is that they believe in the Shahadah (the declaration of faith). The only condition for someone to be accepted as a Muslim (by other Muslims, and indeed other people) is the knowledge that they identify as Muslim. It is not for you, or anyone else, to question their belief in God and Muhammed (PBUH) as the last messenger of God.
Accepting your position that homosexuality (or any other sexuality that isn’t heterosexuality and not being gender-normative) is haraam: sins – even major ones (bar one exception below) – do not take a person out of the fold of Islam.
The only thing that leads to someone leaving the fold of Islam is shirk – which is the worship of a deity other than, or alongside, Allah. People’s sexuality has no bearing on who/what they worship and believe in (or don’t, for that matter).
Given your respect for the teachings of the Qur’an, I would have hoped that you would go away and at least find out what it had to say on the issue before responding.
I could wear my keyboard out with the essays I could produce on this issue but I’ll leave you with a hadith, recorded in Sahih Bukhari, narrated by Abu Dhar:
That he heard the Prophet saying, “If somebody accuses another of Fusuq (by calling him ‘Fasiq’ i.e. a wicked person) or accuses him of Kufr, such an accusation will revert to him (i.e. the accuser) if his companion (the accused) is innocent.”
Contemplate on that.