Sadly, I’ve been tied to my desk all day, so the closest I got to the EDL march was a view of them being marshaled across Tower Bridge. As soon as they were over it, the bridge was raised and that seemed to deter any return.
From what I’ve read on Twitter and from talking to those who were there, the police operation seemed to be massive. Given no large scale violence flared, their expensive tactics – our photographers reported seeing dozens of vans from forces in Wales and Scotland -seem to have worked.
I wonder what the day cost? It’s one of those days where everyone is claiming victory, apart from perhaps the taxpayer.
Let’s just hope that the EDL take home the message that Tower Hamlets is not as bad as they might have read. Those of us who live here are more than capable of looking after ourselves and our own problems, thank you very much.
Anyway, feel free to give your views of today’s events.
Trial by Jeory 
What was quite apparent was the number of non-Muslims present and vocally against the EDL outnumbered the Muslim contingent, which in itself, shows how Tower Hamlets is able to get on with each other without the need of the EDL to show us how to go about it.
But what worries me is the fact that the EDL, technically were not on TH soil, rather on the City of London territory, which would go down as an epic fail for them and they won’t be happy until they spouted their crap in TH.
Date of October 22nd already pencilled in, when we will have to go through this all over again…. possibly
I was there outside Aldgate East and without wishing to put a fly in your ointment where I was there were definitely more Muslims than non Muslims (10:1)… perhaps it was where you were standing.
“James Folgate” you know this isn’t true. Yes, you were there at Aldgate East, but so were a lot of people and thus you were filmed and photographed at Aldgate East – and you are not surrounded 10:1 by “Muslims”.
A group I was in was also at Aldgate East, and it was not that ratio either.
You’re a reporter for East London News aren’t you, so why come on here as “James Folgate” and deliberately undermine and discredit someone’s eye-witness account? But give a supportive echo to “unit 101″‘s account:
Again, you know you are not speaking the truth, this time about the “”white” community” that day. Why? No doubt you have a political agenda (TH Labour Party?) so you think that Ted asking for “views” allows you to do this.
Unfortunately, the TH protesters (and yourself) were filmed at Aldgate East, so the reality is there now on YouTube (from a journalist, apparently):
[The video has you at 2:30 mins. The rest may also interest Ted and others as it has various things he has posted on: volunteer stewards, Peter Tatchell, the crowd of protesters in Tower Hamlets (at Aldgate East) and maybe readers can spot others.]
It’s too much money. They need to be policed, but I don’t think they are going to get up to too much when the eyes of the world are on them.
Well said Ted
‘Let’s just hope that the EDL take home the message that Tower Hamlets is not as bad as they might have read.’ < I wonder where they might have read things that TH might be as bad as things they've read *rolls eyes*
I thought was going to be rough and was happily wrong, up till the end, it was more like a carnival, anti-facsists, locals, police (god they must have been hot) getting on ok together with invites for tea in the East London Mosque. What happened up Mile End Rd though around 6ish? EDL goadingopen day than locals? Most of the anti-facsists had gone by then. Hope no locals got arrested.
Corrected
I thought was going to be rough and was happily wrong, up till the end, it was more like a carnival, anti-facsists, locals, police (god they must have been hot) getting on ok together with invites for tea in the East London Mosque. What happened up Mile End Rd though around 6ish? EDL goading locals? Most of the anti-facsists had gone by then. Hope no locals got arrested
This from the Press Association:
Thanks, btw I didn’t mean that anti-facists & locals were mutally exclusive groups, far from it.
So the EDL were blocked from entering Tower Hamlets (and redirected to Southwark). Does anyone know what happened with the UAF counter demonstration. Unit 101 predicted they were spoiling for a fight on Ted’s previous blog on this suspect. Any incidents?
I was obliged to travel to an important meeting of a charity I’m involved with at Kings Cross on Saturday lunchtime. Travelling on an incredibly congested Central Line (if the Circle, District, Metropolitan and the H&C line were not regularly closed I’d suspect a wicked plot ) I saw no potential demonstrators. I then had to go to a wedding in Havering, so I passed through Liverpool Street mainline at about 2:30pm. The station was emptier than usual, otherwise nothing (but of course I didn’t go outside). As the train passed through the Borough I checked to see if there were any signs (again nothing I could recognise at that speed).
I was present in the area from 10.30 until about three and saw the following. The bulk of the UAF “counter” demonstration consisted of few hundred people the vast majority of them white and clearly not locals. They represented the large, although not as large as thirty years ago, range of extreme left wing groups and causes and there were the usual stalls, leaflets and newspapers.
For those of you who know the area the bulk of the antis was concentrated between the traffic lights at the corner of the Whitechapel Rd and Vallance Rd and extended no more than fifty yard or even less to the Salvation Army Hostel. There were a few more the eastern side of the petrol staion but they petered out from there.
As I got off the 254 bus opposite the Salvation Army and walked along in an eastwards direction I saw a group of IFE stewards surrounding the Mayor Lutfur Rahman who was deep in conversation with Siraj the Brick Lane Curry King and the alleged financier of his election campaign.
I have always found pub landlords to a good source of information and so headed for one of my watering holes The White Hart on Aldgate High St. The Irish landlord I have known for many years told me that the police had been in to advise him that there might be trouble and that he might like to shut but he remained open. Outside the pub were a half dozen or so men wearing IFE high vis jackets but no sign of anyone else.
A walk back along towards Whitechapel showed that there were no more antis than an hour previously and all that was happening was that traffic was disrupted massively in both directions. Whitechapel market was carrying on as usual and although the Blind Beggar had its front doors closed known customers were being admitted by the very large former Royal Marine who now has the place through the beer garden. He told me that he had refused service to some of the more obvious antis because they wanted to hand out leaflets and sell papers in the pub.
From there I walked back to the demo and stopped to speak to and pick up literature from some of the stalls and left groups. It was obvious that they were all from outside the area and this was confirmed by conversations in the pub that used to be the Blue Anchor and is now called Indio or something. Bit of a grotty place but at least they were playing The Doors!
There was a large contingent of FE teachers from Luton who were all SWP, affable enough people but frank enough, after a few lagers, to reveal that there was a three line SWP whip on being there and that full timers were taking names and checking on mobiles to see that members had turned up. Strange people.
It seems that later on, and nobody appears yet to have the details, there was an incident involving a broken down coach of EDL on the Whitechapel Rd. Why the police took them that way I can’t imagine as they could have run them along The Commercial Rd which was close by.
Overall impressions? A poor turnout for a national demonstration by any organisation. Practically no Bangladeshi imput apart from some youth around the sound system and this in an area with the biggest concentration of Bangladeshis outside the country itself. No local white imput whatsoever with what whites there were obviously, and by their own admission, ” bussed in”.
EDL are little more than football hooligan flash mob who have managed to pick up some of the more violent elements left by the melt down of the BNP which was of course a result of the correct strategy and tactics of HnH. That was my take on the whole afternoon and I would be interested to hear if anyone saw anything different, probably!
What you on about? the edl coach got absolutley hammered! pleasently shocked the kids decided not to torch the whole thing with the edl chavs inside.
Yes, there was a good feeling on the streets of Tower Hamlets, lasting all day, and no problems between police and protesters here. The trouble with the coach only happened late, when most of the crowds had dispersed and were on their way home. Mile End Road/Whitechapel High St traffic was stopped from and to Aldgate, and also roads feeding in. Buses were diverted and the tube suspended, so when Tower Hamlets people went home at around 5pm, if they wanted to go back east, they mostly did so on foot, walking down the middle of the road. After a while a few cars started coming through, so people went back to the pavement. No buses. A couple of coaches went by, which we jokingly said ‘what if that was an EDL coach’ as of course the police had kept the EDL at Aldgate, (outside the station) thus ensuring they went no further east. Then we saw that one of the two coaches had a Say No to the EDL type leaflet in the window, so we forgot about it. Then, a while after reaching home we heard that Mile End Road was closed again due to an EDL coach stopping and people getting off, fights starting etc.
Why a coach of EDL supporters was allowed to travel eastwards along the same road that the EDL were previously stopped from going down, was a bad decision, if the police made it. The HnH blog said that the EDL coaches were parked on Tooley St – was this one of them and what was it doing over here then? A BBC reporter, Paraic O’Brien, was on the ground and has most of this on his Twitter page: http://twitter.com/#!/paraicobrien and there is Everything EDL: http://twitter.com/#!/everythingedl for more photos (the coach, with smashed windows etc.)
If you were following the Twitterfeed on this subject you must also have seen a number of UAP tweeps claiming victory for keeping the EDL out of Tower Hamlets. Making them no better in being provocative than the EDL. And who found it necessary to smash the windows of those coaches? Didn’t we have enough police in the borough?
No, Iloteme, I was not following the Twitterfeed on this subject. Can’t say anything about UAP tweeps and don’t even know who the UAP are. Also can’t tell you “who found it necessary to smash the windows” of a coach (not coaches) as I didn’t witness it, hence I referred to the BBC reporter Paraic O’Brien, who did – and the photo of the (single) coach was on Everything EDL.
Strange though that an EDL coach is on Whitechapel Road and then stops to allow EDL supporters to get off the coach, causing a situation that the police had prevented all day. This same coach then travels on, only to mysteriously “break down” further down the road so allowing all the EDL occupants to be on the streets of Tower Hamlets.
Which streets of Tower Hamlets were these? Local people and businesses are totally sick and tired of the mirror images of EDL/UAF between which, certainly at the leadership level in UAF, there is little to choose.
Both organisations are intent on inciting violence for their own political ends and both have been rejected by communities all over the country. The only difference that I can detect is that the EDL can actually, unfortunately, mobilise working people. This of course says a lot about the far left.
I think you are spot on. Apart from the renta-anarchist bunch of 20 dreadlocked junkies with a drum and a few SWP newspaper salesmen that was it from the “white” community from what I saw. Funnily enough the only person I saw in a military uniform was a bloke in a beret and combat trousers taking directions from Weyman Bennett. The whole UAF/EDL thing is a game and both sides want conflict. Trying to ignore them both is probably the best option!
I dread to think what the cost of the Police Operation will be. I’m pleased that “the Usual Suspects of the UAF were so isolated and that local residents, Muslim and non-Muslim chose not to get involved. Typical of the UAF to try and claim credit for what was clearly the result of Police action, I wonder if they plan to take credit for smashing up the stranded EDL coach later in the day?
I wouldn’t postulate or insinuate or assume anything about the EDL coach incident as I wasn’t there. Luckily for you and all of those who weren’t there, the documentary evidence is on Demotix, in photos by Mirrorimage:
http://www.demotix.com/news/816315/edl-coach-attacked-near-mosque-london
The coach is stationary (for the second time?) on Mile End Road, two doors away from Mazahirul Uloom London/Masjid which is apparently (there is a second-hand account to go with the photos) what provoked the incident as after stopping here (also outside Albert Stern House) an EDL Member got off the bus. The crowds photographed by Mirrorimage at what became a crime scene are not waving placards of any kind, so doubt they are yours and ‘unit 101’s’ “usual suspects” of the UAF. Nor do they look “bussed in” as ‘unit 101’ is claiming about the participants here in Tower Hamlets…but then he was only present until “about 3pm” as his very personal perspective on the day says, above.
This from Worker’s Liberty is interesting:
Normally I don’t like the cops to be honest, but over the years of growing up in TH, their level of overt racism has started to become less overt.
The police done a real good job I have to say, they were really friendly with the locals and did not throw their weight about, including those forces from areas where white faces is all you see, which used to mean get heavy with the brown people.
The clip shows that the bus is indeed very near to Albert Stern House at Stepney Green which is a mile from the East London Mosque and was clearly on its way to the M11/M25 links presumably on its way to Nottingham. There seems to be some implication in this and other posts that the EDL provoked the attack on their coach but there is no evidence for this.
A look a the protesters seems to show that they are all Bangladeshi which would figure as the area is very heavily populated with Bangladeshis the Ocean estate just across the road being almost entirely Bangladeshi families.
We don’t have a time scale but it wouldn’t take long for a crowd of this size to gather given social messaging. What is important isn’t just the racial make up but their youth.
Information is still coming in on the blogs but it looks like the whole day has been a bit of a damp squib for UAF in terms of turnout and local white people. Ironically there would have been a lot of the latter in the Stepney Green area but in Wetherspoons which can’t be seen in the photos as it is set back from the Rd.
It seems Peter Tatchell got a bit of a hostile reception from some of the Muslims, what did he expect?
The big question coming out of this is why the EDL were allowed anywhere near the are in the first place. Yes, today was a lot better than if they had been escorted through the area but there was no need for them to have even been allowed this close.
I,m afraid anon seems to think that people who are critical of the UAF/SWP
are pro EDL. This isn’t the case and when he or she is older and wiser and seen more of the opportunist antics of the Trotskyists then that will be realised.
There is a good critique of the whole thing by Edward Standing at http://www.hurryupharry.org.
All this inciting violence rubbish, EDL coming to TH is inciting violence end of. When this stupid poppy burners done what they did in Barking (I think) EDL had a reason to go and counter, fair do’s.
But the only reason they coming to TH was to provoke, they knew what were doing. I don’t know much about UAF, but I was there all day, none of them pushed or goaded the cops, unlikethe EDL who attacked a journalist by trying to burn him/her (if only I can find the link again on BBC and one of their reporters twitter), they pushed the cops, the chucked fireworks at them.
Ask the police did any counter EDL demonstrators do the same… no.
So some of you on here open your eyes, it’s fine to protest but coming here was going to result in one result.
As for the bus incident, here’s how it went as unfortunately for the coach load of illiterate cider lovers, they decided to drive past East London Mosque just as prayer was finishing and what didthe cowards to, they shouted abuse at the Mosque goers not realising they were about to stop at a red light.
Stupid mistake number one so they got what they deserved, says a lot for wanting to march peacefully outside the Mosque.
Then secondly the coach stopped or broke down outside Stepney, no UAF just local Muslims decided to smash the coach up as EDL were shouting/showing abuse, again I suppose justly deserved.
What happened after was breathtaking cowardice from EDL men, a female EDL supporter decided to get put and confront the youths, she failed to realise that the coach and men on it, fearful for their lives were trying to get the coach started and drive down the road!!!
A local Bengali had to explain to her that while EDL men were leaving her behind, a Muslim man was saving her from the locals.
Police turned up, emptied a normal red bus, ushered all the EDL numpties in it and told the bus driver to drive.
Now if you all are wondering how I know all of this, let’s just say I have a habit of being at the right places, at the right time, or wrong place at wrong time considering how you see it.
Good account. Do you have a picture of the EDL woman Sheraz? I’d like to get in touch with her.
Apologies but I’m not big on getting my camera out, decreases my level of ‘cool’ that I have to uphold being the age I am, but I have spoken to some people on FB who saw the same and will ask them to post/forward at some point!
Yes, do that – thanks.
The fastest (and probably safest) route eastward out of Tower Hamlets from the Aldgate/Tower Hill area is via The Highway and the Limehouse Link. Complete security fail to send an EDL coach down the Whitechapel Road.
Emdad Rahman get’s a wonderful welcoming from this EDL goon
http://www.youtube.com/user/eastlondonnews#p/a/u/1/NuPSHpFgx9Q
Well at least Emdad http://tsu-doh-nimh.blogspot.com/ didn’t have a Policeman standing on his head.
“Blue Dwarf” – how typical that you would come here to say this. But why Emdad? (I saw Emdad on Saturday but in Tower Hamlets.) It is particularly nasty, even for you “Blue Dwarf” when Emdad was subjected, just a few weeks ago, to racial abuse in Tower Hamlets. To top it all, the abuser proudly boasted that she had been a Headteacher (in four schools) and was currently an Ofsted Inspector.
Ted and others (obviously not “Blue Dwarf”), please look at Emdad’s photo of this ‘educator’ of our children and if possible, could a name be forwarded and she is reported to the Education Department:
http://tsu-doh-nimh.blogspot.com/2011/08/demon-headteacher-ofsted-inspector.html
Perhaps the East London Advertiser should take up this story? Ted? [Perhaps you should ask Emdad to guest post/cross post on here about this Ofsted Inspector, to help? He could also guest post here with his account of Saturday as he was both in Tower Hamlets and in the City, and had a camera. Emdad?]
Being called “a black Asian idiot” by a former Headteacher from four schools (in Tower Hamlets?) and a current Ofsted Inspector (in Tower Hamlets?) and you have children in Tower Hamlets, may be why local residents like Emdad went out in support of others to keep racists, like the obvious EDL Members (as opposed the hidden racists who may be teaching our children) away from our streets.
Well maybe the racist thug shouldn’t have broken the law in the first place and then hurled racist and anti-Muslim abuse. Simples.
@Anon You really are getting increasingly desperate. The item I was referring to was the East London News link. As a Press Photographer (even a part time one like Mr Rahman) you sometimes find yourself in the line of fire. In this case some verbal abuse from a prone, apparently injured youth about to be thrown into the back of a Police Van. At least he called him a Muslim and didn’t use the offensive “P” word. Perhaps Emdad should have asked him which Football team he supported? Incidentally I would have liked a little more information about the reasons for the arrest, does anyone know?
I do not regularly follow Emdad Rahman’s blog. I only know it is highly rated by Ted. So I missed the case of the abusive Granny. It clearly wasn’t Emdad’s week but it looks as if he got his revenge. Incidentally she looked a little long in tooth to be an active member of the Inspectorate, but who knows. I suppose I will now have to check back on a regular basis to find out how things went.
@Anon (which ever one you are) I’ve just re-read your abusive diatribe against teachers in Tower Hamlets:
1). Emdad appears to live in Barking Essex, thats where he was abused in front of his kids by the white van man. The alleged former Headmistess could have acosted him there, or near his work (which I think is in TH) or anywhere between here and Luton. Emdad did not say!
2). Being a teacher in Tower Hamlets is not easy, the poverty levels and mother tongue issues alone make it an uphill job. Yet results have consistently improved in recent years. Now you want some kind of witch-hunt. I think you should apologise.
Muslim extremist mayor of the Islamic Republic of Tower Hamlets stops fellow muslim extremists from massacring the EDL in Mile End…..
If you missed this special moment, don’t worry. If you watch this video you too can experience what it was like at the time.
This “anon” is not ‘me’ – but perhaps the commenter (who must be “Blue Dwarf” as it is a YouTube clip embedded on this blog) is directing this comment at me?
Still don’t get the Independence Day movie reference (alien invasion?) What “special moment” is in that movie – and wow you must be old to remember this howler of a movie. What next, ‘The Day The Earth Stood Still’? ‘Day of the Triffids’? ‘War of the Worlds’? ‘Attack of the Giant Tomato’? Nah, still doesn’t make any sense.
@Anon Nothing to do with me, I suggest you stop making silly allegations and think about giving us your real name (some of Teds commenters do use them) or chose a cool psuedonym like me. Incidentally I just provide links, its Teds WordPress settings that imbed the video.
I should have mentioned to click on the link embedded in the tweet to see the fundamentalist mayor in action
I got the impression that there were a quite a few local non-muslim locals around, I met at least half a dozen old faces I knew from the Labour Party and there were probably a fair few non-aligned types with a dislike of the EDL like me having a look round and taking in the atmosphere, as well as people doing their shopping (including one woman who had never heard of the EDL).
“Unit 101”, your slant on the protesters in Tower Hamlets is this:
What a twisted and inaccurate view of the day from you – based on 4 and a half hours in 3 pubs. “Practically no Bangladeshi imput apart from some youth around the sound system” (by the way, a misspelling from the scourge of this blog who was taught “English” by an Israeli Commando Unit) – is not true and a slur on “Bangladeshi” youth whom you have just “some” of, and standing uselessly next to the sound system. Of course you are usefully listening to The Doors (yawn) in the Indo and getting first-hand inside information from lagered-up “white” “bussed in” participants (allegedly) – on whom you base your entire declaration of “No local white imput”.
The truth is that the EDL supporters yesterday were the definition of “white” and “bussed in” and that there were hundreds of local people, both “Bangladeshi” and “white” on the streets yesterday, participating and demonstrating. This is documented in the photos. Some of these photographers are local residents too, i.e. Mark Baynes (Wapping) who took photos of the EDL at Aldgate and then their exit over Tower Bridge: http://www.demotix.com/news/816032/edl-protest-city-london-and-tower-bridge – along with Pete Maclaine. Other photos on Demotix record the VARIOUS protesters in Tower Hamlets; by photographers Steve Davies, David Mbiyu, Paul Howard, Peter Marshall, Behzad, Mirrorimage, Howard Jones.
But the truth doesn’t suit “Unit 101” who has some warped agenda. He also declares – this wise elder and pub regular – that the EDL and the UAF are “mirror images”. Not in these photos. The EDL Members are the ones wearing pig masks, Burkas made from English flags; their leader dressing as a Rabbi, banners daubed with No to Extremists, Islamist Fanatics, “Barbaric Paedophillic [sic] Sharia Laws”, etc etc. Perhaps he should consider if the fragrant Member who later alighted at Mile End Mosque had a pig mask on when she leered from the coach as it passed the East London Mosque? Or, in alighting at Stepney Green, was she really stopping in at Citivet?
Ditto
Sheraz,
Finally someone has sussed what 101 refers to. I was never in it, too young, but some of our instructors when I did my military service had been. I was recounting what I saw between 11 30 and about 3 pm. The static demo was very largely white and not local. Because people are white doesn’t mean that they are from the East End. There are ways of telling by means of accents or do all white people seem the same to you?
It certainly seems that at Stepney Green the coach was ambushed by a large group of Bangladeshi youths who had been drawn in by means of social media.
On the subject of accents it is worth listening to the two white antis who appear on the clips on this site and HP. If you think they have east end accents I wouldn’t want to be on what you are.
Obviously as a Jew with East London family connections I am against the EDL and all they represent as much as anyone. I am also against the East London Muslim Centre hosting preachers like Al Sudais who compares me to pigs and snakes or another preacher who gave a ” spot the faggot” lecture, something Mr Tatchell might bear in mind.
101
Lets agree to disagree as I have lived in Tower Hamlets all my life, just passed the big 30 and got to know a lot of the local faces, all colours through the years.
Your second paragraph uses the word ‘ambushed’ – when really, it should have been described as
“retaliated to EDL numpties, putting on pig masks and shouting abuse through tinted windows as the cowards they are at Mosque goers”
Both Mosques at Whitechapel and Stepney.
You may ask whats the difference, not much, but it’s those undertones in what and how you write that have made me not really want to engage or comment on anything you have written and the only reason I have, is because you named me out on a comment.
My ‘ditto’ was to the last couple of llines of anon’s comment.
Perhaps Sheraz and Unit 101 could discuss the accents these two characters Ben & Anthony pontificating on the abuse of women. Wonder which part of Tower Hamlets they were brought up in, must have been the posh part
Incidentally this is the female EDL member who was dragged or fell from the back of the coach (the EDL are blaming the coach driver), punched in the face, breaking her jaw, was then brutally kicked (see below) before being “rescued” by counter-demo stewards and handed over to the Police
Tower Hamlets has it posh parts within it’s urban thrawls.
Now they could have been students from the many universities that are in and around the borough, they could be grads working at Canary Wharf, these are some sweeping generalisations I am making, but they could be true.
Do they admit to being UAF?
I dont know what your point is blue smurf but put a pig mask on and shout abuse outside a Mosque, man or woman I dont have any sympathy.
Everyone here wnats to play the victim game, poor woman (if she could be described as that) was pulled from the toilet (probably snorting stuff through her nose rather than relieving herself) and got beaten up.
She stepped out out of her own volition, something the men should have done, but due to their cowardice and painful mockery of this on many mediums, to save the EDL ego, they come up with a story of her being pulled out and blaming the coach driver.
Wake up, smell the cheap cider EDL love to waste their dole money on and then have no money left to spend on their kids, so blame johnny foreigners!!!
As for EDL’s comment of not having respect for women – we love our women, that on the video clip, is not a woman, she should not have been there on a provoking and inciteful march knowing that her ‘team’ were baying for blood just like the other ‘team’.
So smurf – I will leave you with a very distasteful parralel, one that might anger other readers or raise an eyebrow in relation to the so called EDL Angel as many websites are stating it.
In one of the many atrocities carried out by US/UK soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan, one of which was actually was recorded on the fighter pilots camera and leaked to the world, where by they killed some locals thinking they were the ‘so called enemies of the US, but then carried on to kill a busload of people… carrying a wounded child to hospital.
Then when they realised what they did, one of the pilots was recorded as saying, something along the lines of…
“too bad, they should not have been there in the first place”
Co-pilot:
“yeah damn right”
Same thing to that EDL Angel – too bad, she should not have been there in the first place……. shouting abuse…… with a pig mask on…….. in front of a Mosque……. at worshippers…..
“Unit 101” says:
“Unit 101”, you keep making false declarations. Leave your bar stool/comfy armchair and get yourself informed. As you tottered home at 3 pm on Saturday, you should leave out the twisted ‘guesswork’ and have a look at the evidence.
Sheraz (above) was there and witnessed the EDL coach incident. There is plenty of other evidence on YouTube. The facts are “unit 101” that the EDL Members on the EDL coach not only provoked reaction (driving past the East London Mosque and hurling abuse), they then ATTACKED THEIR OWN COACH. Yes, when the coach got caught at the lights in traffic, as Sheraz confirms, (just past Whitechapel Mission) the EDL supporters smashed out the window themselves to get at those who were approaching the coach:
http://bit.ly/p3oeEY
This short, slowed down clip: ‘EDL Tower Hamlets coach window was broken from the inside’ is on YouTube with others. There are also videos of the second incident when the coach stopped near Mile End Mosque. Two windows are seen, broken, on the other side of the coach. There is no footage I have seen yet that shows these windows being broken (when and by who.)
“unit 101” your increasingly skewed judgements on the events of Saturday are just bizarre when the “evidence” you say is not there is there: http://bit.ly/p3oeEY Also, why did the police arrest the EDL supporters on the coach, if they was “no evidence” – as you contend?
@Anon You are wrong about the window of the yellow coach. In this much clearer video you can clearly see a white male, all in black hit the middle window with something heavy, shattering it. Then a fusilade of cones, placards etc are thown in, before the coach roars away.
Incidentally I have not seen any pictures, film etc.of those on the bus being abusive or threatening. Can anyone provide me with any?
This is a question for Cllr Shahed Ali: as cabinet member for the environment and with control over the borough’s civilian CCTV cameras, will you be providing evidence to the police about who committed this assault? For if the thugs who beat her are not apprehended, it is highly likely that we will see the EDL trying to come here again. It’s imperative that we treat all offenders equally, no? Do not play into their hands. I know there are those who would like the EDL to return so they can exploit it for political gain; I don’t think you are one of them.
So should these people be prosecuted?
The East London Advertiser has the following piece on how those fundamentalist Muslim extremists of the IFE and the mayor helped to contain their fellow Muslim extremists from committing acts of jihadism for most part of the day http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk:80/news/stewards_stopped_mass_brawl_after_edl_coach_run_in_mayor_says_1_1013880
Here is another view of how the days events unfolded as reported by Penny in the Newstatesman
bit.ly/p9Siaa
Here is another view of how the days events unfolded as reported by Laurie Penny
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/laurie-penny/2011/09/police-lines-edl-young-street
Ted, you asked yesterday for a picture of the ‘EDL woman’ involved in the first EDL coach incident, at Whitechapel. You wanted to get in touch with her. This picture of the (alleged) ‘EDL woman’ has just been put up by @everythingedl and there is a name, so no doubt you could contact her and get her version of events. It seems there are conflicting accounts:
http://twitpic.com/6gmkrq
The picture comes from this photographer’s website: http://bacphotography.photoshelter.com/gallery/EDL-ANTI-RACISTS/G0000HKe9E8_i6yk
Here is what the EDL are currently saying about the incident.
– “We have spoken to the woman that was assaulted and she was in the downstairs toilet on the coach when Muslims/UAF tore the door open. She was punched in the face and thrown on the floor where she was kicked several times, all by men. When she got up and ran after the bus she was surrounded and further assaulted.
She says she was hit or kicked by at least 20 different males. She has a fractured cheekbone, bruised ribs and internal bruising.
The other people on the bus were having the windows caved in on the other side of the bus and were unaware that anyone was off the bus. Once they realised they piled off the bus but it was too late and they have all been arrested although the charges will never stick.
This is the third time an EDL female has been viciously assaulted by the followers of the “religion of peace”, they love attacking women. Respect to the woman in question as she says she will not stop going demos. Good on you girl thats the British spirit right there.
The good news is police say the whole incident is on CCTV and they expect to make several arrests shortly.
If you are still looking for pictures of the EDL woman a Facebook Friend of a Facebook Friend has pictures of her with the Counter-Demonstration Steward who handed her to the Police he is called Khalid Malik, email address: khalid@ramadantimetable.co.uk
you may not wish to publish this.
Ted, Paul Ingham – while the police investigate and the CCTV footage reveals what happened at the first incident, both on the nearside of the coach with the window smashing (either due to action inside or outside the coach), and on the other side where a woman is on the ground/road, there is now an EDL Nottingham Division “STATMENT” [sic]. It also seems to conflate the second incident, when the coach had stopped at Stepney Green, with the first one. It is nearly a mile between them, so this is just one ‘mistake’. There are plenty of other things in this “STATMENT” which just do not add up:
STATMENT: Tower Hamlets 03/09/11
By
Nottm_Patriot
– September 6, 2011Posted in: News
Fist off I’d like to make clear this is the events that took place on 03/09/11 and 04/09/11 are reported as viewed through my eyes, the coach had 45 people on it and some events may be viewed differently and/or some events were not witnessed by myself – i must also point out ‘all’ of the persons on the coach excluding Jo and the driver have been arrested and bailed so certain points i will not go into detail as this could harm investigations that are currently ongoing.
Ill start from the point of pick up on Tooley Street as our driver did not go to the designated parking that i told him to this lead to us traveling back as a lone coach instead of with other coaches heading north/M1, i don’t know London so i took my seat at the back of the coach and left the driver to take us home.
We must have been 20/30mins into the journey when we pulled up in traffic instantly we are all aware that we were in fact outside of a mosque on our right hand side(this has later been identified as east end mosque) – outside the mosque were about 40/50 Muslim men of all ages who recognised that we were EDL (on the travel in, we took the advice of no colours and flags but an anti sharia banner was taken from the demo and was put up in the coach window on the side of the mosque on the journey home, i was not aware of this until after) and instantly began shouting and banging the coach and in what seemed like seconds a window was broken on the left hand side, the driver then pulled away as the traffic moved but we were again stopped in less then 100yds and at this point we were surrounded by more ‘muslims’ this time from shops with the others running up from the mosque – now more windows were smashed and objects were entering through the open windows.
The driver then was able to drive away and we covered a much further distance before having to stop again – in this time i did a check on the passengers seeing who was injured only then was i made aware that Jo a female on our coach was not there – personally i was shocked and this must be a mistake and checked the toilets asked everyone to check the floor(fuck i even checked the roof…) but we couldn’t find her, her friend telephoned her and she said she was the other side of the mosque from us and had been attacked – at this point i asked everyone to stay on the coach and drive further up the road and i would go back for Jo – and i left the coach and moved down towards the mosque but even at this point more Muslims were gathering from the surrounding area – and it became clear the only option we had was to try and break through so i returned to the coach for more lads and we headed down towards the mosque – At this point i cannot include anymore information about the events as we have a ongoing police investigation against those that left the coach to rescue Jo, except to say that we were eventually forced back towards the coach by heavy numbers and unable to get to Jo.
Once we were back on the coach the driver informed us that the clutch was burned out and unable to move,we were sitting ducks and that’s when we were encircled with a estimated 1000 strong muslim group – video/images have been taken by ourselves and will be released – this onslaught continued for 5mins(it seemed like a lot longer) until what we believe was 150 riot police attended and pushed the Muslim group back.
A double decker bus was then sent to pick us up and we were moved onto it it then took at least 15mins to exit the area while still having objects thrown at us as the group of Muslims tried to block our exit with with bins, rubbish and even a sit down to block the road.
Once we were clear of the area(this is later explained to us as Tower Hamlets) that’s when the bizarre events took place with us being escorted all over London for about 2hrs under blue lights by what looked like 15 police vehicles till we eventually arrested and placed in cells – Now im no legal student but it seems very strange that persons that have been attacked (for some this has been a very traumatic experience) arenot counselled and asked to give a statement but instead are left to sit in cells for over 24hrs
Every person on the Coach was detained and interviewed and released on conditional bail while further investigations took place – At the point of writing this i believe that no Muslims were arrested over this incident.
Id like to personally thank the Met police for there swift response because i do believe if they would have been 5 minutes later we all would not have been here to tell the tale and also to everyone who supported us like Tommy & Kev, Tony Curtis and Tracie and everyone who helped to get the division home including Craig Leicester and Shaggy who traveled down to pick up the last 3.
My thanks extend to those that left the coach to rescue Jo every individual directly risked there life for a fellow EDL member and as such should be credited not perscicuted.
NSFE
Richard Nottingham
There is some earlier comment on the EDL coach incidents/female EDL Member/alleged broken jaw etc and it adds the later “Statment”:
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/the-notts-division-coach-fiasco
To “Blue Dwarf”: you want an apology from me about my highlighting the racist Ofsted Inspector and former Head Teacher of four schools?
No.
P.S. I put Tower Hamlets in question marks and brackets next to her previous Headships at four schools and next to her current job, Ofsted Inspector – so it was made clear that this racist, oh “abusive Granny” as you disgracefully spin this, may currently be working here and may have worked here in the past.
So it’s alright that this woman is an Ofsted Inspector somewhere else? And, possibly was a Headteacher at four other schools, elsewhere? And Emdad was just ‘having a bad week’ and the EDL racist at least didn’t call him the “P word” (whatever that is.)
You can be an apologist for the EDL Member racists here and this racist woman (and possible Ofsted Inspector). Seems this is why you come onto this blog. What next another link to your “Esmerelda Weatherwax” who was out on Saturday with the EDL? Her father was at Cable Street, allegedly, (when 10 years old, allegedly). Michael Rosen’s father was at Cable Street and he was a Speaker on Saturday. Michael Rosen is genuine and credible, unlike this EDL internet sockpuppet/Discworld character who makes such a claim. But it’s enough for you to shove a link to her/him and their EDL and ‘March for England’ racist rubbish.
Here is part of Michael Rosen’s profile on Wikipedia:
“Rosen has also been involved in campaigning around issues of education and for the Palestinian cause. He has written columns for the newspaper of the Socialist Workers Party (Socialist Worker)[11] and spoken at their conferences.[12] He has also stood for election in June 2004 in London as a Respect Coalition candidate.[4] He is also a supporter of the Republic campaign.[13]”
Rosen is a lifelong Trotskyite member of the International Socialists/Socialist Workers Party, a tame self-loathing Jewish anti-Zionist, regularly rolled out to make apologies for Anti-Zionist Jew-Baiters however violent. A Respect candidate, but not anywhere winable (you wouldn’t want to upset “The Brothers” would you?) Someone dedicated to smashing the 300 year old settlement called the British Constitution.
Other than that I like his kids poems and enjoy his Radio 4 broadcasts. Did Esmerelda Weatherwax speak at the EDL Rally? Anyone got any video coverage.?
Anon,
I,m sure that somewhere in your diatribes you have a point. Would you please let us all know what it is because at the moment you sound like Stewart Madewell, what a misnomer that, in full Trotskyist mode?
unit 101,
What is it with Stewart Madewell and this blog? Why the accusation and all these comments:
Imran Khan, disgusted of Shadwell, whitevanmanlondon, and now unit 101.
No, I’m not Stewart/Stuart Madewell but there is an obsession on this blog with the man. And you and Imran Khan both think he is a Trotskyite?
What is this post about? It doesn’t seem to have any relevance to what had gone before. Can you explain yourself?
Unit 101 – the relevance is you. You said I “sound like Stewart Madewell” and added “..in full Trotskyist mode” – and I am pointing out the stunning similarity to commenter ‘Imran Khan’ and his Stewart Madewell comment with its “Trot speak” accusation. (Not forgetting ‘disgusted of Shadwell’ and ‘whitevanmanlondon’ who also have this same obsession with Mr Madewell.)
You made the Stewart Madewell comment, so you brought it into this. (No explanation from me needed – but perhaps one from you as the accuser?)
[…] commenter “anon” on this thread on my blog has highlighted what appears to be relevant information on EDL News (that’s […]
For your less jaundiced readers, here is a report of teh antifascist demo, plus a second compilation of pics and video which should allow you to see the size and atmosphere of the event and the fact that there were both locals and people from further afield, white, black and Asian, standing together against the EDL.
report here
http://uaf.org.uk/2011/09/victory-over-edl-in-tower-hamlets-they-did-not-pass/
more pics and video
http://uaf.org.uk/2011/09/in-pics-and-video-brilliant-tower-hamlets-anti-edl-protest/
I’ve spotted two major inaccuracies in this self-congratulatory piece, Tommy Robinson was not arrested at the demo, he handed himself in the next day. The total number arrested during the day was 60 (including those taken into “protective custody” at Stepney Green). I’m sure there are many others. Anyone would think that the far-left dominated UAF and their Islamist chums actually stopped the EDL, when it was actually the Metropolitan Police and their re-inforcements. The result would have been exactly the same if the so-called anti-Fascists had not turned up.
http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/edl_east_london_protest_60_arrests_after_clashes_1_1012863
If someone looks at the photo and then counts the heads on the video it will be obvious that there were a few hundred on the ” Victory March” which seemed to wander between the Salvation Army Hostel and the ELM. A pathetic turnout and all those involved have isolated themselves from the wider society that they are, I would assume, trying to appeal to.
The majority of white people in the borough as in the country stayed away and the massive Bangladeshi community gave it shrort shrift. It is now clear that anything organised by the IFE and the SWP has the kiss of death on it and quite rightly so.
I have no doubt that this will enter into the anals of the SWP in the same set of lies that contain the ANL defeating the NF, and that is a lie.
Lokos like my last post was deleted or lost. Look at the video. A few hundred at the very most who took a couple of minutes to walk past the camera.
This is for the one who calls himself “anon”. I wonder why he cannot bring himself to let us know HIS real name. He’s so busy outing everyone else but not quite brave enough to meet the standards he expects of everyone else.
I continue to use the pseudonym “James Folgate” for consistency with other comments I have made and I stick by them. Yes I do work for the East London News. I am not one for saying what other people want me to say, I am not slavishly following a political ideology. I say what I think. People respect me for that. Sometimes we have disagreements, but that’s part and parcel of intellectual discourse. Perhaps you are of the mindset of bullying people to agree with you and then denouncing them using all sorts of wild accusations when they do not.
I said 10:1 because that is what it seemed to me for the twenty minutes I was at Aldgate East. The constitution of that crowd changed while I was there with many more people joining. Are you infallible Mr. Anon? If it was not 10:1 it was probably 9:1 or 11:1. Why wouldn’t you expect that in a part of town where most people are of Bengali origin. You say this isn’t so, well that’s your view, and you’re entitled to it, but it doesn’t mean another person is deliberately lying and trying to distort the facts. Perhaps someone was counting different people using IC numbers. Maybe they can tell us. Otherwise, despite your claims to be less fallible than Christ I will settle for what I saw with my own eyes.
I am no longer a member of the Labour Party. My membership expired and I could not think of a good reason to renew it. I am not currently a member of any political party. Which political party are you a member of Anon? The SWP?
No doubt YOU have a political agenda, Anon, which is why you hide your identity in such an obviously hypocritical way. Finally on this infinitely tedious issue you keep bringing up – the words we use to describe different people. It is your favourite way of trying to pigeon hole people who don’t agree with everything you say. Yes, I used the term “white” and put it in inverted commas because, frankly, I don’t know what else to do without causing pretend offence to people like you. How would you describe people of different cultural backgrounds in the UK? Would you say English, or British, or Western European or White or what? What term do you prefer, then I shall start using it, just for you.
@James
Just do not agree with you are saying about protesters here in Tower Hamlets. You say: “Apart from the renta-anarchist bunch of 20 dreadlocked junkies with a drum and a few SWP newspaper salesmen that was it from the “white” community from what I saw.”
And of protesters at Aldgate East, you say “there were definitely more Muslims than non Muslims (10:1)” or 9:1 or 11:1.
Sorry, but I still do not agree, and if these are your ‘views’ they are ok here on this blog (and invited by Ted) – but it would not be right for you to put these views as fact, in say your newspaper, the East London News. It also was not the true experience of the day and there are plenty of photos and videos out there now proving it.
Because I do not agree with you, you accuse me of being in the SWP. Wow, you and ‘unit 101’ are both so similar in these obsessions: SWP/UAF/IFE/ELM
I’m not in any. Let it go. Or just keep on accusing local residents of being affiliated to some organisation to dismiss them. No wonder you let your TH Labour Party membership lapse. You also could not have gone out that day when TH Labour told us residents to stay indoors and not to protest. Or I suppose it wouldn’t have mattered as you were out there as a reporter (for East London News?
(And I’m still not a renta-anarchist or in the SWP – or UAF or a Trot, ‘unit 101’ and ‘James Folgate’. And I’m the one with a political agenda!)
Anon no more. I am simply commenting on styles. Like others I have seen a similarity between comments made by Madewell on this and other blogs and in letters to the East London Advertiser. I can’t think why you have made so much of it unless you are protesting too much.
@unit 101
I’m protesting too much because I really am this Stuart Madewell? I am still NOT STUART MADEWELL.
I know, we could get ‘Imran Khan’, local solicitor, (apparently) to meet me as he knows Stuart Madewell from Brick Lane and Plashet Park. He also believes as you do that Mr Madewell is a Trotskyite/Marxist (whatever) and he could identify me from Stuart Madewell. Quite a McCarthy-style trial. Now, where is Imran Khan’s practice?
Did anyone, or has any see/heard of those poppy burner prats were at the counter EDL march?
The reason I ask is that they are partly to blame for EDL wanting to come to TH and I was very angry not to see them on the day to, they can pull off media attracting stunts but when they really needed, no where to be seen.
There are rumours surfacing that they may have become tools of the establishment, not sure if there is any truth to this but if they going help start something, they need to be there to face the consequences.
@Sheraz. If you are talking about Anjem Choudary and “Muslims against Crusades”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims_Against_Crusades
They were probably in their taxpayer funded office in New Street E1 planning how to build the Caliphate one London Borough at a time. Or handing out leaflets outside Stratford Shopping Mall exhorting the gulible to ignore the laws of the land.
https://trialbyjeory.wordpress.com/2011/04/17/east-end-life-and-extremism/
Even though I’m not fond of them, I’m all about as accurate reporting/commenting as possible.
The building they are housed in has nothing to do with tax payers money, his brother who is quite well off and a businessman had bought that property outright for Anjem, while he uses the top part for his own printing business (that last bit needs to be added with an ‘I think’).
The government contracts bit relating to his Learndirect centres, really and truly do not have anything to do with MAC.
Dani, Anjem’s brother, is first and foremost a business man and his training centres which people from the local JCP’s got sent to on a whole host of training were good for local jobseekers.
So linking all that to the dim wit poppy burners was a bit of sensationalist reporting again from the anti-Muslim brigade.
My point is I believe the British government want all this anti-Muslim sentiment by allowing the likes of MAC to do what they have been, forget human rights, if they behave the way there are, then deport them, that way, EDL dont have anything to whinge about.
Suspicions about MAC now being paid ‘staff’ for MI5/Police have surfaced because a former member has been telling anyone who would listen, that the reason he left the group is because Anjem had been regularly attending ‘meetings’ with certain figures and people in the local community have been noticing that they have been quite quiet recently, laying low.
Whatever the case, bang them up, deport them or whatever as it’s the British government who need to do their job and not be asking so called ‘moderate’ Muslims to do it for them!
What was the business reason behind Dani Choudary’s planning application to convert the building, including the “top part”, to an “Islamic teaching centre”? His name was on the application.
Are you trying to say that Dani wasn’t aware of his brother’s activities?
Wake up and stop dreaming up conspiracy theories.
Would you support a demo outside the building? Will you protest about Hizb ut-Tahrir’s next conference at the Water Lily? Is One Tower Hamlets about ridding the borough of all forms of extremism or not?
To your comment about building an Islamic centre, I will reply like a childish pre-pubescent would reply…. “so”.
There is a new Islamic teaching centre opposite that opened up, the Tayyibun centre opened last year or year before that one, why don’t you comment about those, all of them on the same road.
Of course he knew about what his brother is like, so much so his official business name to clients is Dani and not his real name, also he tried his best to hide the fact who his brother was to an ex colleague of mine when they were discussing a small local contract.
So before you assume anything Ted, ask before you state something, because no where did I state that Dani never knew what his brother is famous for, my point was that of the words, taxpayer and that paying for Anjem’s activitiesand how that line of reporting was a bit far fetched.
Do you want me to break it down for you a little more.
As for me protesting against HT and MAC, as I said, why should us Muslims to the job for the state, the way we protest against the likes of them is by educating our kids and friends that groups like these do harm, which is why HT has lost so many supporters throughout the years.
MAC hardly has any, so the British government should do their job and kick them out.
Maybe the EDL, instead of wanting to provoke us and march through Whitechapel, instead of aiming it’s hatred against the Mosque, should have planned to hold a protest in front of the very building that houses the man Tommy Twat Robinson speaks so much about in New Road.
So Ted and et al, I suggest you wake up, smell the wheat grass or whatever fad you maybe into that fuels your undercurrent tones and start lobbying Cameron to be more harsh on the likes of those who you mention, after all, if HT is banned in some other European countries, why not the UK???
If Dani is so embarrassed by his brother’s activities, why did he buy a building for him and then go along with his plans for an Anjem-style teaching centre? How was Dani able to afford that building?
Are you sure that no Anjem/MAC leaflets and stickers are not designed or produced anywhere in that building, which includes Dani’s Master Printers. And Dani knew about Shah Hussain’s background when he hired him. Those are facts.
And what exactly do you mean by “the Government should do their job and kick them [MAC] out”?
OK – FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOU TED AND SOME OTHER LIKE PAUL W.E WHATEVER (I CAN THINK OF SO MANY THINGS THE W.E. STANDS FOR BUT FOR ANOTHER TIME HEY) I WILL WRITE THIS IN CAPITALS.
PLEASE FOLLOW:
– I POSTED A SARCASTIC COMMENT OF WHERE MAC WERE ON THE DAY OF THE EDL MARCH ETC.
– BLUE DWARF RESPONDED WITH A COMMENT WHICH INCLUDED
“They were probably in their taxpayer funded office in New Street E1”
– TO WHICH, I REPLIED BACK TO SIMPLY CORRECT HIM/HER THAT THE BUILDING IS NOT FUNDED BY TAXPAYERS MONEY, AS YOU KNOW TED, IM ANAL ABOUT CERTAIN FACTS BEING TWISTED.
That my esteemed colleague, was the only point I was referring to at the comment.
You decided to go off on a tangent and start going off on one. Firstly, am I not correct in saying that Anjem’s ‘den’ in New Road is not funded by the taxpayer???????????????????????????????
Now getting to the point of Yazdani (Dani) of course he knows what his brother is up and would be/will be up to when he bought the property (this part kind of anwers my qustion above dont you think?), I myself stated that he would keep his connection to Anjem away from potential contacts.
So from me correcting a simple point that I did, I have no idea where you got from that I support Dani in his so called ignorance of his brothers actions, what you did was jump to a conclusion without properly reading my comment – whipped some bloke with initials that sound like he has a wee in his name into agreeing with you by saying he would have said the same, but as you did it for him no need to, probably because he was having a wee and could not get to the keyboard which is the real reason he could not be bothered to type – and carried on with your diatribe.
As for your last question of kicking MAC out – the government should do more against the likes of MAC, imprison them for enciting violence, or deport them, or curtail their benefits…. something, but this doing nothing keeps adding to the anti-Muslim sentiment, sometimes, which I think is being done on purpose, consiparcy theory or no conspiracy theory.
NOW I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING I USED TO DO WITH ANOTHER COMMENTATOR ON HERE, THINK HE WAS CALLED PERSONAL POLITIX OR SOMETHING, I HAD TO REPEAT AND BATTER HOME TO HIM TIME AND TIME AGAIN…
I do not support MAC or his brother (which I clearly stated in my first point), I just wanted to point out a fact regarding taxpayers money.
Please do not let me have to re-type this again but just in case, I have highlighted, Ctrl+C and ready to hit that Ctrl+V.
Why is Dani helping him when he knows what he’s up to? Why does Dani want to create an Islamic teaching centre for Anjem’s group?
And by “kick them [MAC] out”, I did think you were suggesting deportation. Do you know how much like the BNP you sound?
I seriously do not understand why you wouldn’t want to protest outside the New Road office if you so strongly believe it was them who enticed the EDL to come to TH. What are you afraid of?
From your first paragraph you are really tempting me to use that Ctrl+V combination!!!
Why dont you go to the Learndirect Centre in Whitechapel and ask Dani yourself – that was never my point (I’m starting to repeat myself and dont want to copy and paste as I save that for special occasions)
So what do you suggest we do with the likes of MAC????
They need to know how to finesse the media and talk normally to try and get their point across, instead, they go all out ‘raw’.
Enciting is not the way, so if they are British citizens, then punish them somehow, if they are not British citizens, then deport them.
That way, the likes of the EDL wont have any excuse to drink a couple of more cheap cans of cider and look like idiotic cavemen on TV, waving the Israli flag, with half of them not knowing the flag of the country they are waving, or why they are supporting the country in the first place!!!
Ted – why should I protest in New Road, why dont you go and do it, organise something through your blog or paper, what are you afraid of?
MAC being idiotic and stupid true, but they have not thrown disgusting comments about my God and Prophet, they are not going around assualting women in headscarfs on the underground, they not coming in front of my local Mosque and hurling abuse.
EDL did and do those things so I will protest and protect my people… of all colours and races from them.
What MAC are doing is giving us Muslims a bad name yes, but many Muslims, those who you would call moderate actually understand the anger and where the sentiments stem from, BUT TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THE WAY THEY GO ABOUT IT, so you wont get many who would really protest against them….. and do the job for the government for them.
We dont want them around, nor do you, so lobby the government.
I will protest and protect those from people attack my religion, who are dumb enough to think 2 million Muslims from a collective country of around 60 million could ever impose Sharia law in the UK, who call on my religion to be outlawed blah blah blah.
“Finesse the media”? Laughing. They’re experts at media manipulation.
You sound like an apologist for them. Are you saying that MAC have not hurled disgusting comments about God, or hurled homophobic or racist abuse? You sound very confused and if you are who I think you are, that’s very worrying indeed.
I’d be happy to help any demo, so if I do will you? As for lobbying the Government, it was my SX article that has prompted an investigation there. And yes, I’ve been to Learndirect a number of times and even to Dani’s house in Croydon but on each time he’s refused to talk. Why?
On your last point, would you like Sharia Law and justice more widely obeyed and deployed in Britain, regardless of the probability of it happening? I’m trying to understand where you’re coming from.
Just like being un-PC is seen as racist, discussing why MAC do what they do is apologist – there is alway a mirror to what right wingers say and do, to what Muslims do end of.
As for them being experts, just shows how dumb some parts of the media are, why give them their 15 minutes in the first place, thats what they want, maximum coverage to spout their crap.
As for hurling abuse, what have they said about God Ted? bearing in mind that Allah translated means God, so when the dumb EDL’ers hurl disgusting comments about Allah, they do not realise they are just insulting God in Hiself, which could be their God (By God just stating that last fact made me realise how dumb EDL twats are, even though I knew this from before).
Now homophobic – that you are correct but again, they need to know how to convey what they are saying in a less raw form, which will still not sit well with you.
Homosexuality is not allowed in my religion, end of, no discussion, no “but Syed from Eastenders is Muslim and gay so why cant it be right”
I’m not going to apologise for what my religion states and what I believe, this can go to Peter Thatchell – you cannot be gay and Muslim, you choose which one and you live with it happily.
NOW I DO NOT CONDONE OR SUPPORT ANY ATTACKS OR KILLING OF GAY PEOPLE!!!!!
This is the UK and we live by the laws of the land, if you are gay, then live and let live I do not have a say or push my religion into you, do what you got to do.
I do not have a problem with homosexuality, but what MAC do is go extreme in a country that the majority will not agree with, but still say enciteful things.
Some people here may confuse me for a sell out, some may think I have extreme views, but have faith in my religion and adhere to it while adhering to the UK laws and the way fo life.
That may raise some eyebrows but I do not care, as I said I’m no apologist for anyone nor do I apologise for my religion.
If MAC were do say it like the above, maybe they my have more listeners wiling to engage and then make their minds up after, but they just a bunch of silly hot heads.
You think I’m confused, but an hour with me and you will get a btter understanding of why certain people think the way they and and how extreme Muslims really are on certain aspects of life.
You and your readers always get confused by hearing things from Muslims who have other agendas, for example the who Lutfur rubbish, you have Helal Abbas supporters who feed you and your readers fear about Sharia, to basically take pot shots at their political enemy.
You then have people like the Quilliam Foundation, who by the way is governmen funded, and started up by a bloke who did not win a leadership campaign within HT (Ed Hussain), so got pissed off and started to warn people of extremem Muslims.
The above probably does not apply to you, but is an example of how people use people like you to attack their opponents for what is at the end, for their own personal gain…. and what gets a kickng as a result….. Islam.
Now going to the question of would I want Sharia law in the UK – I would like to know what your take is on Sharia law first, is it the part which anti-Muslim media focus on, the stoning, the lashing or is it the part where cases of family disputes, divorces etc are involved?
Im not sure if this is true, but I read somewhere certain aspects os Sharia are already in operation int he UK for Muslims who wish to be guided by it, maybe you could confirm this for me.
My personal view is that for certain aspects like I mentioned of family proceedings, divorce proceedings, civil litigation, then if both parties of Muslim faith wish to be directed under it, then maybe this option could be available.
Not for any criminial activity or serious crimes.
PLEASE READERS take heed of what I just stated, I do not agree Sharia to be imposed on anyone, nor for stoning or lashing, just available for civil cases and for both parties to agree.
But I’m not going to cry about it if the option is not there.
You still did not confirm my one and only point I wanted to make, one that you bypassed and just went into this whole debate that you have heard before. do you agree that Anjem’s building is not being funded by the taxpayer – you do realise this was all that I was making a point of??
And lastly, NO – I will not join a protest against MAC because the only problem they are causing is creating a negative view of our religion…. something the general media has been doing before member of MAC started to grow their beards, so if I protest against them, I will bloody have to protest against Fox News, News International, I suppose you can guess where I am going with this.
Sheraz, while I don’t think this is quite the best place for a theological discussion, what makes you say that “you cannot be gay and Muslim”?
Have you based on this on your own understanding of Islamic scripture? Or is this what you’ve heard and just accepted as the truth?
I’m going to go with the latter – given the number of people who I know who are LGBT and Muslim. You do realise it’s not mutually exclusive? One is a sexuality (which many argue isn’t chosen anyway) and the other is a belief in God – practised in a particular way.
Educate yourself on the issue rather than parroting what you’ve heard elsewhere. You may want to start here: http://imaan.org.uk/
Have you stopped to ask yourself why someone would “choose” to be gay given the abuse, rejection, stigma, violence and – in some parts of the world – death, that accompanies such a “choice”.
Your posts usually give me some food for thought. But this one…
To Anon1
I read your comment last night and was going to post a reply via my phone and was going to be my usual chirpy self, but I didnt, reason being I thought this reply deserved a full 100% keyboard moment and not through a phone that when I would try at times try to type burglary, would come up with buggery (realising that last word and on the subject I am commenting about now, seriously no pun intended)
Anyway to the point, I wanted to take the time to respond as after this, I will not be willing to engage with yourself anymore.
I take my perception of homosexuality from what I have been taught through many people and what I have read and understood my from the Holy Qur’an, so your comment of being a parrot flies right out the birdcage, DO NOT TRY TO RIDICULE MY UNDERSTANDING AND THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS UNDERSTANDING ON THIS MATTER.
You throw me a website link thinking I will change my mind, luckily, I cannot do the same with the Qur’an and ‘chuck’ it at you as I have respect for it and its teachings.
I am going to say once again, if you are a Muslim and you decide to act on your desires, then you re-nounce Islam, just like certain sects of Islam re-nounce our Prophet Moahmmed (pbuh) – they automatically reject themselves from Islam.
When I was growing up I always knew homosexuality, in my religion is not accepted and never will be, no matter how much groups such as yours, try to pull the ‘old testament, new testament’ move of changing the words of God to suit with the times.
That does not work with the Qur’an – you may have interpreted some scriptures in the Qur’an to suit your own choice in life and lifestyle, but that’s not how it works.
Anyway – as this is not the place or blog to discuss this as I could go on and on – but if you yourself are homosexual while trying to practise Islam, then I honestly do hope that you search within and pray that you can stay away from the life you have chosen and decide to follow our religion correctly.
The above statement again may make some people angry, but as I stated before, I make no apologies for my religion.
If you are not Muslim then I would appreciate you not trying to teach me about what the majority of worlds Muslim population believe and adhere to.
(Right now I feel like that episode of Friends where Chandler tries so hard to hold in his sarcastic replies and jokes….. really hard to be serious)
OK – so who here is going to try and deny or confirm the very first point I made, a very trivial point to Blue Dwarf that a certain building is not funded by the taxpayer… any takers as I am fed up of the direction that simple comment has taken, Ted being the main instigator and now look where it has got to!
“but if you yourself are homosexual while trying to practise Islam, then I honestly do hope that you search within and pray that you can stay away from the life you have chosen and decide to follow our religion correctly.”
“the life you have chosen”
Deary me.
Deary me all you like Ted – as Anon1 said, this is not the place for a discussion on this subject.
Also – trying to get other commentators on here to empathise with your last statement to hopefully start a ‘Sheraz bashing day’ just because you kind of lost the orginal argument will work to some extent with people who will probably comment on what I said…
But really – wont work with me!!!
(I cant believe you still avoided my question, this time, by trying to gain the moral high ground, cheap move…. but I like it… me and you were just starting to get along from the start of my more recent post as well!!!)
Which question am I avoiding? If you’re going on about New Road, I’ve answered it. Read the article again.
But answer me this: are you a councillor?
(Ted, if you want to move our comments to another thread – or if you’d prefer that we didn’t have this discussion here as it’s off-topic – just shout.)
My religion (be it Islam, another or none) is irrelevant. I’ve taken time to study the Qur’an, hadith and seerah under a wide range of teachers (including some from the ELM/LMC!) and reached an understanding – one that I’m not alone in.
“I am going to say once again, if you are a Muslim and you decide to act on your desires, then you re-nounce Islam…”
Based on what? What is it to be a Muslim? The only condition for someone to be a Muslim is that they believe in the Shahadah (the declaration of faith). The only condition for someone to be accepted as a Muslim (by other Muslims, and indeed other people) is the knowledge that they identify as Muslim. It is not for you, or anyone else, to question their belief in God and Muhammed (PBUH) as the last messenger of God.
Accepting your position that homosexuality (or any other sexuality that isn’t heterosexuality and not being gender-normative) is haraam: sins – even major ones (bar one exception below) – do not take a person out of the fold of Islam.
The only thing that leads to someone leaving the fold of Islam is shirk – which is the worship of a deity other than, or alongside, Allah. People’s sexuality has no bearing on who/what they worship and believe in (or don’t, for that matter).
Given your respect for the teachings of the Qur’an, I would have hoped that you would go away and at least find out what it had to say on the issue before responding.
I could wear my keyboard out with the essays I could produce on this issue but I’ll leave you with a hadith, recorded in Sahih Bukhari, narrated by Abu Dhar:
That he heard the Prophet saying, “If somebody accuses another of Fusuq (by calling him ‘Fasiq’ i.e. a wicked person) or accuses him of Kufr, such an accusation will revert to him (i.e. the accuser) if his companion (the accused) is innocent.”
Contemplate on that.
yes, please post this under the MAC thread please….many thanks.
Did you answer my question? If you did can you do that fancy thing you do and provide a link to it and to be honest, there should only be a one worded answer, yes or no to whether Anjem’s building is taxpayer funded?
Am I councillor? No
Here
You aint getting away that easily.
Is the building in New Road where Anjem does whatever he does, DIRECTLY FUNDED BY TAXPAYERS MONEY??
Its a simple question.
His brother who bought the building runs a Learndirect centre in Whitechapel, not New Road – which is a separate business which delivers NVQ level training and takes referrals from JCP.
So do you want me to ask the question again – it’s very simple.
Plus I have to say – when you said you had already answered my question, I thought you meant answered it in my current round of comments, not on a blog which you posted 3-4 months ago, which in fact, still as you can see, answers my current question, which was quite stupid of you dont you think?
How would other readers know to search for an older blog which would relate to this one to find an answer which, you actually did not answer.
Are you sure you are not a undercover wannabe politician, dodging bullets and all that???
Try reading the article again. Read the BIS statement. I don’t know if the funds received for training were misapplied. It wasn’t me who said they were. I think Blue Dwarve made that assertion.
What we do know is that Dani has made a lot of money from Government funded training schemes. His lovely house is testament to that. We also know that despite knowing about Anjem’s activities, he chose to buy a base for him and others whose groups have been repeatedly proscribed by the same Government he readily accepts money from.
At the very best, it doesn’t look good, does it?
So thats a no then?
Thought so.
You would make a good politician…. hiding a simple no answer in lots of gobbledegook.
No, it’s not a no. There’s an investigation going on.
Investigation…. thats a convenient answer for you isn’t?
I would be really eager to find out the result of that investigation into whether taxpayers money is paying for a building…. that as you stated has been bought already by someone!!!
And (not sure if you can start an sentence off with and but I like living on the edge) why did you not mention this sudden investigation when this question first crept up on you from me some days ago – would have at least decreased the number of repetitive comments on this blog by half???
Now, try not to be tedious. The investigation has been going on since the article was published some months ago. You must have read that.
And as I said, it wasn’t me who stated that taxpayers’ money was for sure directly involved.
This discussion is now closed.
Tut tut Ted
You aint coming out looking good from this by ending how you have, you may not post this, but at least you will read.
There is nothing wrong with agreeing or admitting something, it takes a stronger man to that, than what you just did.
all the things you just said in your last two posts, like
“I never said it, Blue Dwarf did” or
“I cannot comment yet as there is an investigation going on”
you could have said days ago and that would have been that, but your ego, which many reporters like you have, just cannot bear to back down slightly.
Lets see if your ego allows you to post that???
Being a new person to this site i should say this sheraz person does have some serious views some maybe not to my taste but he has to be one of funniest commentators around but my point is Ted you could have ended this as sheraz said just by saying what you did at the end you need to know when to stop digging hole for yourself.
To Sheraz i would like to find out more on your ideas about religion and sexuality
@ IFF (I’m fuc**d foundation)
Thank you… I think.
From your name I can tell you must be a fan of Mr Situation – he is a hero of mine!
If you find my posts really funny, fancy being part of one in relation to a number of bootlickers Ted has on here, this one specifically going to a Paul W.G.I.S.A.N.U.M.P.T.Y Ingham?
In response to my comment telling Ted how he could have saved himself from looking a bit silly by just stating things earlier, could you, or would you post a reply along the lines of:
“Well said Sheraz, glad you said it so I didn’t have to”
I will await with baited breath to see if any of this and your potential response makes it.
[…] commenter Sheraz on this post here makes the following point about Anjem Choudary and his not-so-merry band of Muslims Against […]
Well said Ted, now I don’t have to say that.
To your c
Ted,
Muslims are protesting against MAC today. Yes, the EDL did turn up, but not with any of their Muslim supporters (they have one – I did see a photo from Saturday at Liverpool St Station of a person who is known to EDL observers.)
Anyway, there are Muslims protesting against MAC today. See Sunny Hundal’s twitpic of his banner ‘Muslims Against Extremists’:
http://twitpic.com/6jdvm4
And another from Sunny Hundal of The Peacemakers:
http://twitpic.com/6jeetp
I think this video speaks for itself.
Let’s not be apologists for these maniacs any longer.
Tommy Robinson quite clearly makes threats against all MUSLIMS.
What exactly do you “imagine” Tommy Robinson is threatening? In the event of another terrorist incident of the magnitude of 9/11 or 7/7 do you object to the EDL demonstrating against them. Do you object to the 57 million non-Muslims in Britain protesting against such an outrage? Surely any decent Muslim would also be on the streets with “Muslims against Extremism” or whoever to register a protest. Only creeps like Islam4UK and Muslims Against Crusades would be celebrating and endorsing such an attack as they do the previous ones.
If you take Robinsons “threat” to heart. Isn’t this just another reason to be vigilant in your own community for signs of radicalisation? To close in on the Jihadi’s whenever they turn up with their street stalls or try to throw their weight about at community meetings and tell them where to go? Not to say “the Government should be doing something” and then sit idly by while bigots and thugs pervert the tenets of your religion and corrupt your children with hate?
**One Does Not Simply Walk Into “Toower Haamlets”88
I have audio surveillance of a mac member and a gov official talking about a secret deal, which involves funding!
Blue Dwarve,
Lennon blames every single Muslim for “killing and maiming British Citizens” and accuses Muslims of getting away with it…
You sir, are an apologist.