If medals were awarded for networking in Tower Hamlets politics, Labour’s Abdal Ullah would walk away with all the gold on offer in Dubai.
A former member of the Metropolitan Police Authority, he was elected to the council in 2006 and immediately became the borough’s Grand Chief of anti-crime, a post he held until Lutfur Rahman became mayor in 2010. Since then he’s been busying himself on his other great passion: finding a seat in Westminster.
Partly to that end, he established the Labour Faith Network, which has the backing of his former tutor Lord Glasman, in the past couple of years he has helped publish the British Bangladeshi 100. This list of 100 influential business people, politicians, celebrities and others in a celebration of the influence and success of the Bengali community in Britain.
The list, which was unveiled at a reception attended by Theresa May and Chukka Umanna last week, makes for fascinating reading. It’s not numbered so it avoids the squabbles of ranking, although it’s fair to say that Lutfur has been placed literally above Rushanara Ali for a reason.
I’m particularly interested in the Channel S entry, but more on that another time.
It’s slightly off-topic for this blog, but my other half, if I can risk labelling her so, has been engrossed in it…and wondering how to make the break-through next year.
So here it is in all its glory. It’s probably worth opening up the entire pdf via this link..Booklet-BBPower100-20132
Trial by Jeory 
Good on Abdal for (aside from any of the motivations that you speculate) a worthwhile project. Beats the Tatler list any day.
It’s good to see something that highlights the significant contribution that talented British Bangladeshis make to this country – eminence in many fields.
Hopefully it will go some way to dispelling the very negative impression a lot of the public no doubt have of this community, owing in part to smears in the media on the part of some of his Labour colleagues.
Shame so many of them are crooks and islamists
Bit like the the Forbes list then…
What’s an Islamist???
It seems to be, in the so-called Modern and Western World, a supporter or advocate of Islamic fundamentalism.
Islamic fundamentalism means killing innocent people, slitting their throats as they sleep at night, blowing-up, killing and maiming for the rest of their lives non-involved fellow human beings who have done nothing wrong.
Preventing women and girls being educated, preventing them driving cars and other vehicles, banning music, TV, radio, making women sex objects for the enjoyment of dirty, smelly unwashed men who have never done an honest day’s work in their lives.
These Islamic fundamentalists abuse the Koran for their own political and power-mad purposes, destroyed priceless and unique Moslem books and manuscripts and Islamic ancient art. These mad dog terrorists unfairly give normal decent Moslems a very bad reputation. Shame on all Islamic fundamentalists. Mohammed and the other prophets will prevent them entering heaven because they have abused the humane principals of true Islam.
So another media made up word to replace extremist then because they bored with that word, I get it now
So an extreme Christian is now a christianist, hinduist (cant be bothered to list all religions)etc.
On some papers this morning there were reports that the IRA were planning to bomb the G8… they must be Irishist then.
Makes sense.
Cheers
No.
They’d be terrorists.
Because of their extreme/’ist’ views no?
What’s up Ted, me having a dig at the media got your goat?
What’s wrong with the word extremists you people used to love so much?
There’s nothing wrong with the word extremist if that is a fair description of their views.
Arguments always seem to go round in circles with you.
And the IRA are terrorists because of their methods, not because they have extreme views.
But this is all a bit sixth form, so I’ll leave it that.
It suits the likes of you to say people like me go around in circles because it gets to the point.
IRA’s views may not be extreme but their METHODS are.
Whether it was the christianist remark, media being fickle or irishist remark that got the ‘rocket up your sixth form butt’ – whatever it was…. you fully well know anyone can put an ‘ist’ in front a religion and think its a correct term.
Like Christian fundamentalist,you mean? Like Breivik?
I thought this was all too sixth form for your intelligence… hmmmmmm.
But Anders is a good point, his Christian/racist/religious extremist views are what drove him to kill those 90+ people, but he is badged with the label ‘mass murderer/fundamentalist’.
I know I’m 110% correct that if a Muslim did the exact same thing/circumstance – he/she be honoured with the term ‘terrorist’ preceded with all the Islamic ‘ists’ there was.
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE when a twisted version of any ideology is used to commit crimes?
The media cannot be that bored, that lazy that they did a ‘Branjolina’ (Brad Pitt/ Angelina Jolie) or ‘Tomkat’ (Tom Cruise/Katie Holmes) in that saying the words Islamic extremist and just shortening it to ‘Islamist’.
Then of course… you have lazy sponge like people who are not that media savvy and just take in that they are real words.
Old is gold….. just stick to f**king using fundamentalist because that’s all they are.
I think an essential enlightening fact has been ignored.
The IRA were not Catholic Terrorists because they did not seek to impose a strict form of Catholicism on those they tried to conquer. The wanted political unity for the 6 and 26 counties of Ireland.. The important point is the IRA were not terrorising everyone because they wanted girls and women to cover-up their ankles and banning a man and a women who were not related by family or by marriage being seen together in public.
The Islamic Fundamentalists imposed their version of a religion upon everyone denying everyone the free choice to worship a god or not worship a god.
The IRA did not blow-up the libraries in Northern Ireland or deliberately destroy works of art either. The Islamic Fundamentalist did in the name of Allah – I wonder what Allah thinks of the shameful vandalism and destruction of Islamic works done in his name ?
I couldn’t give a flying f**k why they bombed INNOCENT people, same thing, they are Irishist just like Islamists.
I’m going to use another term – you sir/madame, are a IRA terrorist apologist…. standard!!!
I admit I support a united Ireland. However, like the vast majority of ordinary people, I abhor and reject violence – minor or major. Violence is wrong.
The British government have been trying to divest itself of ALL of Ireland since about 1741 (? date). I recognise the fact that the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland are ordinary, decent and respectable citizens.
Logically the present set-up is bizarre. People in the 6 counties have more in common with people in the 26 counties than that have with people living in the often sleazy Labour-controlled boroughs of London and elsewhere.
Now, lets return to Tower Hamlets which is a gigantic mess thanks to Labour and their failures to know anything about running basic local authorities. A former Labour bigwig gained power as the Mayor and inherited the Labour created systems, procedures, failures and sleaze. No one can expect an overnight improvement in that type of defiled environment.
I think the reason why Islamist is used rather than Extremist is because they are different words made up of different letters which have different meanings!
If the reader sees the word ‘Islamist’ he knows what it entails…which is typically a hairy man with very small private parts wearing a white dress and flip-flops who has a violent hatred of all people who think differently from him as well as women, pictures, humour, alcohol, skin, music, sex, joy, shaving, sausages, fun etc.
I understand Islamism to be an ideology that seeks to direct Islam in an expansive and aggressive way…
An extremist means anyone who is extremely enthusiastic about something unspecific but extreme. You have extremist naturists for example…
And then you’ve got fundamentalists who believe in fundamentals. Often this is religious but they are different to traditionalists in that they want to revise a religion and reduce it to its core components rather than conserve how it used to be. In English history the word “Puritan” has been applied to fundermentalist Protestant Christians.
An extremist is not necessarily an Islamist and an Islamist might not always be a fundamentalist…
Funny that – when I hear the words ‘Grave Maurice’ – I tend to get an image of blokes on the dole, drinking in pubs with carpets that stink of piss, drinking while they don’t have a pot to piss in, kids everywhere who are on the breadline…. all the while leaning over a mahogany bar intoxicated blaming the Muslims for the reasons they so poor, not realising their dole money is being pissed up the wall and strangely fantasising about men’s penises!!!
But that is just me I guess
Hi Sheraz,
What inner London Labourite controlled borough do you live in or have you been watching too many old black and white films ?
Hi Curious See-You-En-Tea
I live the lovely borough that this blog is aimed at.
Hi Sheraz,
You don’t have to be rude to express your opinion.
So you live in the crisis-riddled, deprived and corrupt London Borough of Tower Hamlets. No wonder you don’t seem cheerful.
You wrote, earlier,
> I tend to get an image of blokes on the dole, drinking in pubs with carpets that stink of piss, drinking while they don’t have a pot to piss in, kids everywhere who are on the breadline…. all the while leaning over a mahogany bar intoxicated blaming the Muslims for the reasons they so poor, not realising their dole money is being pissed up the wall and strangely fantasising about men’s penises!!!
Is this what your image of Tower Hamlets has developed into ? If so, don’t forget the Borough’s Labour ancestry and failures.
Why the fascination with penises ? Why can’t your imagined drinker lust about tantalising and attractive females ?
Illiteracy and semi-literacy are serious social problems with grave economic consequences, compounded by New Labour’s anti-education for the masses policies, littered all the way to Lewisham hospital with financially damaging and unaffordable PFI (Private Finance Initiative) disasters for schools and for the NHS.
The best method of improving people’s lives is initially giving them Literacy then education. Then they are less likely to criticise others and more likely to understand that drinking-away the family’s weekly income is wrong and will not solve their problems.
Firstly – I’m not the one dreaming about penises, your partner in crime Grave was so was a reference to that.
Secondly – well having to explain the above makes me feel better about being rude to you because you clearly don’t follow.
And third – well your just a bit boring with your long winded crap to be honest that don’t get anywhere, PFI’s….. come on, honestly.
PS – I hold that view for many pubs up and down the country, not just our lovely borough.
PPS – I do my bit for society and especially those who are illiterate as you say/or like to spend their kids dinner money on beer by helping them get back into work or into training to better themselves.
Been doing for 5+ years even helping those who like to blame people like me, sometimes to my face of taking their homes, jobs (that was a funny story), women and benefits.
PPPS – with all the above I’m becoming a hypocrite by being a long winded arse like you so apologies
> …. well having to explain the above makes me feel better ….
I am glad you feel better. Living, or existing, in the LBTH must be an awful strain.
> …. well your just a bit boring with your long winded crap to be honest that don’t get anywhere, PFI’s….. come on, honestly.
Yes many of the poorer people’s problems, especially in LBTH, were caused by wasteful Labour policies of which PFI (an excessively expensive Hire Purchase scheme) in an example. Glad I’m only a ‘bit’ boring. I rather liked my Parliamentary points.
> PS – I hold that view for many pubs up and down the country, not just our lovely borough.
None of the pubs near me, OK 15 minutes walk over the border into non-Labour territory, are remotely like that. Assuming you are a Moslem, and some Moslems don’t drink alcohol whilst others do, is your experience of English pubs comprehensive or very selected and perhaps limited to deprived areas ?
> PPS – I do my bit for society and especially those who are illiterate as you say/or like to spend their kids dinner money on beer by helping them get back into work or into training to better themselves.
Well done. That is good to read. Engaging such people can be difficult because lack of literacy is often concealed, very successfully at times, by oral lucidity. Resistance occasioned by embarrassment is also a huge problem.
> Been doing for 5+ years even helping those who like to blame people like me, sometimes to my face of taking their homes, jobs (that was a funny story), women and benefits.
Over population is an increasingly significant social, economic and environmental problem. Chinese birth-control, one child per family policy, was a good idea. Life has its own population regulatory mechanisms. For example, the First World War (1914-1918) then the Spanish Flue about 1919 ?, the second World War (1939-1945) and because there have been no nuclear wars or global wars or large scale epidemics (yet) the world’s population is too high. The optimum population for England is about 30 million.
> PPPS – with all the above I’m becoming a hypocrite by being a long winded arse like you so apologies
Imitation is a sincere form of flattery 🙂
I love living in TH actually – have the opportunity to move out the borough but I have grown up here and couldnt give a toss about the ‘so called’ crap at Town Hall because it aint affecting me personally.
I also could give a f**k about the pubs you frequent.
Lastly – “imitiation is best form of flattery” errrm Madonna said that about Gaga…. and we all know what about mad bag of loose skin that cow is 🙂
Hi Sheraz,
> I love living in TH actually – have the opportunity to move out the borough but I have grown up here and couldnt give a toss about the ‘so called’ crap at Town Hall because it aint affecting me personally.
But it does. Everything that happens at the council inevitably does (adversely usually) affect the rest of the borough and ultimately the quality of life in the borough. Why are you being so loyal to your former employer ?
> I also could give a f**k about the pubs you frequent.
You sound like an irritable politician avoiding answering the questions. Are you practising before standing for parliament ?
> Lastly – “imitiation is best form of flattery” errrm Madonna said that about Gaga…. and we all know what about mad bag of loose skin that cow is 🙂
Don’t know much about Madonna and know nothing about Gaga (sounds like mad cow disease). Saw Madonna in a film over 20 years ago (my niece was a fan) and didn’t think much of her. Don’t people write about things that interest them most ? You and Madonna and Gaga ??? Don’t think much of your choices 🙂
Don’t think much of your words either….. too many of them…. making no sense at all after the second sentence going off in a tangent… Give me gaga any day, at least keeps my little one quiet.
Sorry forgot to put the >…..
Forgot the 🙂 as well…. if only I could find how to put ✊ as well… oh look… just did
Sheraz > Give me gaga any day, at least keeps my little one quiet.
Fancy subjecting your youngster to endless, nauseating, Gaga. That’s not Kulture. Can’t you afford some decent classical music ? You live in Europe, the home of enlightening, enjoyable and inspiring good classical music.
Why not cast-off your Labour roots and become more European, after all you live in the European capital of poor and pathetic council services known as the London Borough of Terrible Hell ?
When did you say you’re standing for election ? 🙂
Now you have…. sorry forgot the>…….. now you have made me laugh for the first time, so much so nearly deserves the dreaded ‘LOL’, but not quite, standing for Labour…. how old you think I am, or who do you think I am you cretin?
Even Ted at one point thought I was a cllr in disguise!
I did vote for labour and will vote again in the hope the Cons will be ousted, all of those f**ckers!!!
As for living in Europe, there is a whole host of other genres other than classical in Europe, why should classical music stand out, I’m partial to a bit of Wiley and Tiesto, so you can shove your classical where the 🌅 dont shine!!
😜
Sheraz > …….. now you have made me laugh for the first time, so much so nearly deserves the dreaded ‘LOL’, but not quite, standing for Labour…. how old you think I am, or who do you think I am you cretin?
Left school = 16
Left college = 18
Left university of a place name that no longer exists = 21
Had, well your Mrs did, a baby = 22
Voted Labour = must be brain dead and that means about 110 🙂
How old probably 28 to 35.
For the sum of GBP 1 I can get your date of birth but is it worth it I ask myself. Will I be shocked and see you are now an OAP ? On this occasion I’ll keep my pound – hope you don’t mind. Its nothing personal.
I think you are a person seeking to expand your commercial interests. Was surprised to see you gave-up one directorship last June, for the second time, but assumed you made a good profit.
At times you are stressed and do not seem to relax sufficiently. Perhaps that is due to living under the daily dominance of the London Bollocks of Twits Hamburgers & Chips sometimes known as Tower Hamlets Council.
A wise man, especially one trying to make his fortune in business, never calls his opponents (or betters) the wrong name. You can’t run a borough or a business well if you are too careless and sloppy 🙂 OK, I admit Tower Hamlets is the exception to the Rule.
Cretinism
A condition of endemic or inherited idiocy, accompanied by physical degeneracy and deformity (usually with goiter), frequent in certain mountain valleys, esp. of the Alps.
Sheraz > Even Ted at one point thought I was a cllr in disguise!
Ted is a thinker. Are you a member of the Labour Party ?
Sheraz > I did vote for labour and will vote again in the hope the Cons will be ousted, all of those f**ckers!!!
Sheraz > As for living in Europe, there is a whole host of other genres other than classical in Europe, why should classical music stand out, I’m partial to a bit of Wiley and Tiesto, so you can shove your classical where the 🌅 dont shine!!
Never heard of W&T. Is it a street drug ?
All the other Muzack is not genuine European. Can’t you tell the difference between USA imports, USA style etc and the genuine article ? I do like some northern African Arab music and some from the African western coast too.
What Kuture ave yew gott in Tower Hamburger land ? Wat has yore meyer given yew in xchange four jor council tax monie ? Cum on don b shie, tel uss wat yew gott.
You have completely lost the plot, business???? Directorship????
Went to Westmister University… still named that last time I checked
Do expand?
Ted is a thinker… but thinks he knows a lot.
Wiley…. Born and bred in Bow, Tower Hamlets, Godfather of Grime, look that up you pillock, so still can be considered European.
I get it, you hate TH and Labour but your curiosity into things is driving you to make up stuff from thin air.
Do you remember I said a word tangent before…. and how you tend to go off on one>…….
😜 Did I mention you were a cretin and a right nutter of a SEE-YOU-EN-TEA
Oh dear !
Thinking you were a famous Sheraz I did a Google on “Sheraz Tower Hamlets” and seem to have gotten the really famous one and not you.
Ho Sheraz,
When you went to school did you learn anything about maths ?? Probably not ‘cos you missed the point that 3 successive tangents rejoin the original line 🙂 Draw it on a piece of paper and see.
What exciting events are happening in TH this week ? Is the Mayor abdicating or putting-up council tax or taking a pay cut ?
LOL – so you admit your mistake thinking I was curry king Shirazul you prick!
He ain’t capable of knowing what tangents and c**ts are….
I on the other hand do, but just in case I had to google and when I did, all entering curious cat did was to bring up an image of…. a proper….. tedious, boring and rather long winded….. errrrm….. SEE-YOU-EN-TEA
😎
Now, now Cllr. Let’s keep the language clean, shall we. This is meant to be a family friendly blog.
Ted – quick question… I remember a time, which on one occasion included myself using personal insults along with the comments ‘going off in other tangents’ (get it curious c**t), so you shut the comments section down.
I’m repeating the very same ‘crime’ both veering of course, what’s the difference this time?
Do you also think I’m a cllr?
You didn’t study syntax at Westminster, did you? Not sure I understand your question, but there is some value in this discussion, so that might be the difference.
Syntax was not a huge deal with computer networking Im afraid.
So what’s the value of the discussion where I’m calling someone a c**t, and the c**t I’m calling a c**t writes essays full of syntax that’s goes on forever that puts people to sleep.
You still understand my other question which any pillock would understand…. Do you think I’m a cllr even though you basically called me one in your last post?
I thought “syntax error” was q common on computer courses.
Alors, you’re a most valued member of this blog community so it’s good and useful to see your thought processes.
Well alors Ted shows how good I was not to have received any in my work.
I’m glad you think I’m a valued member of the blog, I believe you to as you said discussion was getting all sixth form and will not entertain but alas, you come back.
I may have an issue with syntax (or not) but you seem to have a selective reading problem…. DO YOU THINK IM A CLLR???
Of course not: our councillors are highly literate.
I will take that as a compliment!
The reality is, whether people like it or not, is that a good and successful person is accepted by society for their abilities and achievements – race, skin colour, political party allegiance are not pertinent factors.
Neither one’s un-chosen country of birth nor current nationality determines one’s achievements. Neither are an indication of one’s ability or lack thereof.
Do the many back page logos mean others funded the publication ? If so, how much was collected, can we see the accounts and how the money was spent ?
Any dosh left over or got diverted to other ’causes’ ?
No, you can’t see the accounts.
It’s none of your business.
It’s a private enterprise, for God’s sake!
Oh I understand now, well I think I do.
Its making money for some individuals by promoting other, Bangladeshi, individuals ostensibly for the good of the Bangladeshi community in Britain but financially only a few individuals benefit ?
As opposed to the majority ‘white’ ones in our current parliament (expenses scandal?)
A thief is a thief regardless of his or her skin colour or political party.
In parliament most thieves are white. In local government in Asian areas (run by Labour) most thieves are of Asian appearance with the majority born in the Indian sub-continent. Younger Asian looking people, born in England, are English.
In less than 30 years the whites will be the minority population in England. Are you asserting the non-whites will all be 100% honest ? Dream on my friend and understand the true nature of life that surrounds you.
I think there is different between ‘national citizenship’ (e.g. ‘British’ being the adjective used for citizens of the UK) and ‘ethnic/national identity’ (e.g. ‘English’, ‘Irish’, ‘Cornish’, ‘Flemish’, ‘Tamil’, ‘Karen’ etc) … don’t confuse the two!
Someone can be born in the UK of Irish parents and have British citizenship by right of birth and be a “British National” but be Irish, not English in terms of national/ethnic identity.
(corrected)
Once upon a time when England had, it seemed to me at school, English, Paddies, Taffies, Jocks, Italians, Australians, Polish, Cypriots, we used to be called British. The international sign on the back of cars was GB. (the first Internet country code for us was GB too, now changed to UK the code for Ukraine).
Some, well I do, hate the UK label. I used to be British but now I’m apparently a UK-whatever-it-is-supposed-to-be. Great Britain meant a country bigger than Brittany in France. Great means in French grand which means Large.
It all seemed to make sense and we had a clear identity of which many of us were immensely proud.
With the introduce of the People’s Europe, also known as the EU (I’m definitely a keen fan) with that glorious and inspiring bit of Beethoven’s Ninth, (incidentally Beethoven was born in Bonn, Germany, and had a Dutch name ‘van Beethoven’) we were liberated from being the English monarch’s possessions called “subjects”. Now we have, as a bonus, European Union citizenship. We are UK Nationals which conflicts with British anything because British means English, Scottish and Welsh – definitely NOT Northern Irish since the official meaning of UK means The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.
With the mass immigration from the Indian sub-continent (India, Ceylon, Pakistan East & West), the term British is given to foreigners who are neither Welsh, Scottish or English. Its a horrible mess. It means British is no longer someone who was formerly English, Welsh or Scottish.
Us, who were born here, are not these days ‘British nationals’ but ‘UK nationals’. Its a confusing mess and different parts of the UK government use different terms always uncertain about the correct definition. Being a backward, in civil rights and justice matters, country we have no written constitution just a confusing mess of uncodified laws. Consequently nothing is officially written down for clarity.
The English parliament (The Commons) effectively rules the rest of the UK although some matters are delegated to ‘country’ assembles. The Commons is unfit as a primary legislative chamber and well over-due for modernisation.
Scottish MPs can vote on English-only matters but English MPs can not vote on some Scottish matters. Its known as the West Lothian Question although the educated public often call it Bollocks.
In the Commons instead of pressing a button to vote MPs walk out of their assembly chamber, not for a chance to discretely fart in the corridors, but with the intention of walking through one of two different doors. As these grown-up people, not 5 year old children playing about (what’s the difference ?), walk out of the chamber they are accosted (just like street prostitutes used to accost potential customers), by members of their own political party. The accosters are not plain solicitors but bullies who threaten MPs there will be leaks to the press about anything embarrassing in their lives if they do not vote their political party’s way.
These bullies are called Whips after the nasty people who went hunting for humans, stags and foxes and cruelly and violently repeatedly whipped their hunting dogs. The public can not be blamed for thinking some of their MPs are plain ‘dogs’ under the political control of bullying Whips. Democracy in the English parliament ? You just have to be joking.
Back to the convoluted and very time-wasting House of Commons (and subservient dogs) voting process. The MPs walk through one of two doors. One door represents YES and the other NO. Those doors are locked to stop MPs voting twice (a Labour practice in local elections) and the walkers are counted.
The result is communicated to 4 MPs who then re-enter the chamber, bow about 3 of 4 times, obviously practising for the Queen to give them a Lordship, and talk about “Eyes to the Left” or ‘Eyes to the Right”. Its a joke.
In the Commons, noticed the green benches (red for the Lords), there are two lines painted on the carpet. Those lines are supposed to stop MPs killing each other with their swords. Its more bollocks in 2013.
No wonder the Scots want a better system of government. Who can blame them ? They have a modern push-button voting parliament. The English have a load of crap hundreds of years old and in need of modernisation.
I wonder if bullied MPs report the Whips threats to the police who lurk all over parliament usually in plain clothes but are technically uniformed policemen and women.
Returning to nationality and the accompanying confusion, certainly in the UK, let me assure you a Vlam is still a Belgium and the Vlams Blok seems to be a bunch of extremists. Belgium was created in 1830. It has 3 national languages, German, Dutch and French. Where oh where is the alleged ‘ethnic identity’ ? and what exactly is it truthfully and where can the Vlams ‘ethnic identity’ be ? Net over de grens met Vlissingen ? Onzin (Just over the border with ‘Flushing’ in Holland. Rubbish.)
There are parts of Belgium that extend into Nederland (That’s Holland) with an access being a little bit wider than the road width. The technical term in enclave. Pray tell us what the ‘ethnic identity’ of the Vlams is in that instance ? Dutch or Belgium or what ? You need to learn more about YOUR Europe before mentioning the ‘ethnic identity’ of Vlams. That is the beauty of our Europe. Its a mixture or people and of
borders being changed in the past. Parts of Germany are now Poland and parts of Poland are now Russia. Parts of France are now Germany. Its fascinating and its your Europe too.
If an immigrant becomes British why caused split personalities by burdening the UK national with an ‘ethnic identity.’ ?
When Asian (meaning from the Indian sub-content) looking boys and girls are born here, they are English. Not Pakistanis or Indians. Ditto Poles etc. Their ethnic identity is English.
Ethnic identity. is not a genuine identity. Certainly no passports are issued for it. The sole reason why Human Beings have lasted this long, is because of their ability to adapt to their changing circumstances. Hankering after a past which has never ever been their’s, but their parents or their grandparents is puzzling. The only reason for spreading ‘ethnic identity’ nonsense is because of a Labour Party desire to cause separatism not unity and stop or slow-down assimilation into the British community as one British (OK, currently UK) people.
Ethnic identity advocates are de facto racists.
I was born here. My Dad was born in a foreign country. His nationality was of a different (third) country and our family surname comes from another different (fourth) country. My ‘ethnic identity’ ? English of course. It could be nothing else.
Ethnic identity is an political concept to create separateness rather than assimilation into one community in the country where the people are living.
Although that goes on a little, I agree with with most of it. My family is Scottish/[German-left in time]Jewish, my son has a French mother and is married to a Korean. My first cousins are mixed race from the Caribbean. Oh, my ex-partner and closest friend is from Singapore and Chinese, forgot that one. So we used to be pretty typical ‘London’ and somewhat Anglo-French.
However [mainly] Labour, the Guardian, the Civil Service and other uninvited defenders of our ‘rights’ need us to have an ‘identity’, we must be in a little box, ethnically, sexually and religiously and make a huge clamour when any of these ticks is offended/slighted. News for all these people, I’m human first and all those other things that can’t, in fact, be well-defined by the little boxes, second. A lot of those are my business as well.
The ethnicity box makes me want to tear up the form, but, like everyone else I put ‘Jedi Knight’ in the religion box.
For me, the definition of an ‘ist’ or an ‘ic’ or whatever is someone or a group who is not content to live the life that they have chosen but wants to coerce change in the behaviour and beliefs of others too, someone actively intolerant. Personally, it feels like Tower Hamlets is becoming a centre of excellence for that. Now we’re back to to the Sharia patrol, for example, aren’t we?
Although it goes on a little I disagree and am disappointed that you seem to misunderstand the difference between the concepts of nation and state. I am going to have to go on a bit to try to explain…
I am not British, I am English but I have a British passport. If I moved to Scotland I would still be English and would still hold a British passport. LIkewise there are some people who live in England and who have British passports but are not English. This is because citizenship and nationhood are different concepts.
According to the Oxford English Dictionary’s definition: a nation is a group united by shared factors that include “language, culture, history, or occupation of the same territory”. It is a combination of all these factors.
To quote you:
> “When Asian (meaning from the Indian sub-content) looking boys and girls are born here, they are English. Not Pakistanis or Indians. Ditto Poles etc. Their ethnic identity is English.”
Not necessarily. It is about language and culture as well as being born here. It IS possible for ANY person of any racial background to become English but means their enthusiastic adoption of the language and culture of the English nation. If they don’t do this they stand apart and they are not English.
There are many hundreds of thousands of so-called “Black British” people who are quite obviously English. They think, dress, speak, eat and behave in an English way. Apart from the colour of their skin there is nothing to separate them from other Engish people. It would be an insult to them to say that anyone who simply declares themselves to be English (and then proceeds directly to the housing office) is English just by saying so. It is not that easy – joining a nation does not happen automatically to anyone simply born here – it is not just about occupying the same territory.
To become English – to become a part of this nation – you must also adopt its language and its culture. Of course it is possible to speak another language other than that of the nation you decide you want to be part of but you cannot have two cultures. I think that is impossible because “culture” includes common norms and values. It includes shared codes of behaviour, manners and a self identification of yourself as an inseparable part of English society. If you had two cultures what happens when they contradict each other? Which comes first? It would have to be the culture of the nation of people you hoped to join otherwise you would remain apart. In a nutshell, to become part of a nation requires active participation and an abandonment of any former identity connected to another country. It is not passive.
You also make some fairly robust factual failures when you say, I quote:
> “Returning to nationality and the accompanying confusion, certainly in the UK, let me assure you a Vlam is still a Belgium and the Vlams Blok seems to be a bunch of extremists. Belgium was created in 1830. It has 3 national languages, German, Dutch and French. Where oh where is the alleged ‘ethnic identity’ ? and what exactly is it truthfully and where can the Vlams ‘ethnic identity’ be ? Net over de grens met Vlissingen ? Onzin (Just over the border with ‘Flushing’ in Holland. Rubbish.)
“There are parts of Belgium that extend into Nederland (That’s Holland) with an access being a little bit wider than the road width. The technical term in enclave. Pray tell us what the ‘ethnic identity’ of the Vlams is in that instance ? Dutch or Belgium or what ? You need to learn more about YOUR Europe before mentioning the ‘ethnic identity’ of Vlams.”
Curious Cat – it is easy to answer your (rhetorical?) question “where oh where is the alleged identity” by explaining how limited your historical knowledge of the low countries is. If you had a little more knowledge on these matters and a little less rhetoric you might understand the complex history of FLANDERS (the country where Flemings/Flemish speaking people come from) and “where oh where” they live.
In particular you need to understand the complex process by which the once extensive County of Flanders came to be divided between three countries. First divided between Spain (Spanish Netherlands) and France under the terms of the ‘Pragmatic Sanction’ of 1549 and later again under the ‘Treaty of Nijmegan’ in 1678. You also need to appreciate how the Kingdom of the Netherlands came into existence (as the United Provinces of the Netherlands in 1581) and how the northern part of the County of Flanders (known as ‘Staats-Vlaanderen’) fell inside the borders of the United Provinces. So to claim, as you do, that the Flemings only live in Belgium is wrong. You make the simplistic mistake of confusing people who live within the autonomous “Flanders Region” inside Belgium (which has existed since 1970) whilst being totally unaware of those parts of historic Flanders lying beyond the borders of Belgium which have existed there since the Völkerwanderung of the 6th Century AD. As of now there are Flemings speaking Flemish in France, Belgium and the Netherlands and they are as such a nation of people which share a language, culture and occupy the same territory (historic Flanders) but at the moment are divided between and have citizenship of three states.
There is no Belgian nation under the terms understood to define a nation. Demonstrably the Walloons and the Flemings do not consider themselves to share a common national identity. They do, however, reside in the same state, the Kingdom of Belgium.
And then you go into this bit which is really weird…
> “Ethnic identity. is not a genuine identity. Certainly no passports are issued for it. The sole reason why Human Beings have lasted this long, is because of their ability to adapt to their changing circumstances. Hankering after a past which has never ever been their’s, but their parents or their grandparents is puzzling. The only reason for spreading ‘ethnic identity’ nonsense is because of a Labour Party desire to cause separatism not unity and stop or slow-down assimilation into the British community as one British (OK, currently UK) people.Ethnic identity advocates are de facto racists.”
What is a “genuine identity” in your view? Are Kashmiri people “genuine”?? Surely by your rationale circumstances have changed, they are Indians now and had better lump it?
No passports were issued for Latvians (etc) under the USSR but they still existed as a nation of people, didn’t they?
Whilst I share your disdain for Labour I actually have a memory before 1997 and can tell you now that English people definitely existed before Tony Blair. I know that because I considered myself English and always have done. If anything socialists/communists have always sought to eradicate “ethnic identity” and it is the Tories who are usually called “Little Englanders” so I am afraid I have trouble understanding your catastrophic logic failure at this point…
You have made some good points in other postings you have made but I am afraid I have to say there is a difference between national citizenship and national identity. There is a difference between holding a passport nd being part of nation of people.
Grave Maurice > Although it goes on a little I disagree and am disappointed that you seem to misunderstand the difference between the concepts of nation and state. I am going to have to go on a bit to try to explain…
(1) State and nation are used interchangeable at times. The UK is a member state of the EU. “Our nation” can mean England or England, Scotland & Wales or GB and Northern Ireland. It is confusing and we lack a written Constitution which would clarify the uncertainty.
> I am not British, I am English but I have a British passport.
(2) Wrong. Your PP is a UK PP.
> If I moved to Scotland I would still be English and would still hold a British passport. Likewise there are some people who live in England and who have British passports but are not English. This is because citizenship and nationhood are different concepts.
(3) Wrong again. There are no genuine British PP and have not been for a long time. Just because someone tells you your British PP has a yellow cover it does not mean that their opinion is factually correct either as to the colour or to the wording on the cover of the passport.
> According to the Oxford English Dictionary’s definition: a nation is a group united by shared factors that include “language, culture, history, or occupation of the same territory”. It is a combination of all these factors.
(4) The OED is a history book. What date is yours and how many volumes ? History is not current but a record, of variable reliability, of events that happened before the current time.
> To quote you:
CC >> “When Asian (meaning from the Indian sub-content) looking boys and girls are born here, they are English. Not Pakistanis or Indians. Ditto Poles etc. Their ethnic identity is English.”
> Not necessarily. It is about language and culture as well as being born here.
(5) So someone born here and stays here is going to grow-up having no ability to speak English fluently ? That can’t escape mastering the local language. That’s damaging the ‘language’ part of your argument.
(6) If they are immersed in an alien culture, which happens in some but certainly not all, households with strong Indian sub-continent associations, they will inevitably grow-up speaking English just like the natives even swearing as colloquially and expertly as the natives. They will appreciate the alien culture but unless they are brought-up as Moslems, they will have difficulties writing in that alien culture’s language(s).
> It IS possible for ANY person of any racial background to become English but means their enthusiastic adoption of the language and culture of the English nation. If they don’t do this they stand apart and they are not English.
(7) Forget that nasty word Race. It has so many meanings. The English Race, the Scottish Race, the Indian Race, the Arab Race. Race has no single categorical definition.
(8) A Pakistani (immigrant or born in Scotland) wearing a kilt and speaking in a perfect Glaswegian accent is of what Race ? For all daily purposes he is Scottish and will appear to be Scottish the minute he opens his mouth. What gives him a different Race from a white Scot ??? Only the colour of his skin is different. Over generations it will fade because of the smaller amounts of sunlight up north.
(9) What makes people genuinely different, or using your own words “stand apart” is not race or skin colour etc, etc. It is the way they speak the local language – their accent primarily and then their vocabulary. The instance they speak the local language like a native many, many prejudices dissipate never to return.
(10) Just because a Pakistani eats Haggis and drinks milk, speaks as eloquently as the most educated of Scots folks, watches Gujarati satellite programs on this telly whilst voting SNP how can anyone truly define his alleged culture ? Is it British, Scottish, Pakistani or is he just another fellow Human Being who wants to be normal and live a happy life ?
> There are many hundreds of thousands of so-called “Black British” people who are quite obviously English.
(11) I loath that nasty term ‘Black’. Technically black is the absence of colour. Very few people on this planet are truly Black. Most are different shades of Brown – natural or artificial. I have never encountered any Black British people just Brown ones. First and foremost they are just people; some of whom have become good, and even excellent, friends.
(12) What is “obviously English” ? Someone wearing a plague around their neck which reads ‘Born in England’ or ‘Certified 100% English’ ?
(13) Just because someone is born in India and has an Indian passport, it does not prevent one of the natural parents being white English and the other parent whitish Chinese, the child’s religion being Greek Orthodox and the child’s first language (that Greek created mess called) Russian. What race has the child ? What culture has the child ? What ethnicity has the child ? Is that child “obviously Indian” ?
(14) So much time and resources can be wasted on bureaucratic monitoring of people’s differences rather than on their actual daily needs.
> They think, dress, speak, eat and behave in an English way. Apart from the colour of their skin there is nothing to separate them from other Engish people.
(15) I’m English and white. IC1 and W1. I’m in England. I sometimes think in another language but that doesn’t make me a national of that country. Skin colour does not define an English person. If they are born here they are instantly English, ditto Scottish and Welsh.
(16) Behave in an English way ? Just a few years ago, in relative terms, it was Paki Bashing. Before that it was anti-West Indians and before that at the end of the Second World War it blatant hatred, especially in White English Trades Unions, of the foreigners who fought in the British Army especially the Poles and other Europeans. Not forgetting a post Second World War hatred of the Irish particularly in London. My then girl-friend’s sister, her husband and their very young children were done over by the police because someone accused them of being Irish. She was the English Home Counties and her husband a Gordie (from Newcastle).
(17) Good behaviour is not English behaviour it is decency, fairness and respect regardless of everything else. Foreigners have good behaviour too. I’ve seen it in action In the British Isles and abroad.
> It would be an insult to them to say that anyone who simply declares themselves to be English (and then proceeds directly to the housing office) is English just by saying so. It is not that easy – joining a nation does not happen automatically to anyone simply born here – it is not just about occupying the same territory.
(18) Only the English can call themselves English. Foreigners can become ‘British’ but will get a UK passport, not a British one, and will become EU citizens too. Pass their driving test and they will be presented with an EU-wide driving licence in the local language.
> To become English – to become a part of this nation – you must also adopt its language and its culture.
(19) Sorry I think you are mistaken. Being born here is sufficient to become English. If I was born in Down-under (Australia) I’ll become a Bruce and end-up speaking with a funny (some say appalling) accent 🙂 Nationality is not culture dependent – it is country dependent. Most people in England are semi not fully literate and will have difficulties explicitly defining culture.
> Of course it is possible to speak another language other than that of the nation you decide you want to be part of but you cannot have two cultures.
(20) Of course one can have two or more de facto cultures. In another country I am always recognised as a local native because I wear the local style of clothes, eat the local food, read the local newspapers and obey the local customs … until I open my mouth and speak the language with a bad accent. Then the locals regard me a friendly foreigner making an appreciated effort to speak the local language. Culture is independent of nationality. I enjoy an European culture. Europe is from the Arctic to the Mediterranean and from the west parts of Ireland and France to the Urals (in Russia). European culture is absolutely not dependent on England, Britain or even the UK.
> I think that is impossible because “culture” includes common norms and values. It includes shared codes of behaviour, manners and a self identification of yourself as an inseparable part of English society.
(21) Do you really think other Human Beings, who may not speak English, and are not English and have a different skin colour, don’t share the basic humanity, decency and respect for others as I certainly do ??? You appear to lack in depth exposure to foreigners. (*more at the end)
> If you had two cultures what happens when they contradict each other?
(22) Never had that problem. If you mean the children of Indian sub-continent born people not wanting arranged marriages or girl children whose parents came from backward parts of Africa not wanting their clits cut-off – then the DECENT culture must always prevail; the bad aspects of any culture should always be discarded at the earliest opportunity. That is why education is so important. When the vast majority of people acquire a second or third culture they usually replace the old and bad bits with the new and the good. The resulting culture can be amazingly wonderful – better than all the others.
(23) Don’t forget the old English culture of killing starving people who unlawfully stole bread to eat. Then there is the old English culture of killing mentally ill solders in the First World War. Don’t forget the Witch culture. If some bloke was denied sex by a woman who refused him, he might accuse her to be a Witch. The English culture had a Witch truth test. Tie the woman to a chair, lower the chair into the water. If she floated she was guilty of being a Witch and if she sunk (because she drowned) she was innocent. There are some English cultures that disgust me.
> Which comes first? It would have to be the culture of the nation of people you hoped to join otherwise you would remain apart. In a nutshell, to become part of a nation requires active participation and an abandonment of any former identity connected to another country. It is not passive.
(24) Immigrants want a better life. They can integrate effectively and efficiently with education for language, history and social customs plus the inevitably essential work. We, England, are full-up but that is another problem for debate elsewhere.
> You also make some fairly robust factual failures when you say, I quote:
CC >> “Returning to nationality and the accompanying confusion, certainly in the UK, let me assure you a Vlam is still a Belgium and the Vlams Blok seems to be a bunch of extremists. Belgium was created in 1830. It has 3 national languages, German, Dutch and French. Where oh where is the alleged ‘ethnic identity’ ? and what exactly is it truthfully and where can the Vlams ‘ethnic identity’ be ? Net over de grens met Vlissingen ? Onzin (Just over the border with ‘Flushing’ in Holland. Rubbish.)
CC >> “There are parts of Belgium that extend into Nederland (That’s Holland) with an access being a little bit wider than the road width. The technical term in enclave. Pray tell us what the ‘ethnic identity’ of the Vlams is in that instance ? Dutch or Belgium or what ? You need to learn more about YOUR Europe before mentioning the ‘ethnic identity’ of Vlams.”
> Curious Cat – it is easy to answer your (rhetorical?) question “where oh where is the alleged identity” by explaining how limited your historical knowledge of the low countries is. If you had a little more knowledge on these matters and a little less rhetoric you might understand the complex history of FLANDERS (the country where Flemings/Flemish speaking people come from) and “where oh where” they live.
(25) Geachte heer,
(a) Dutch (het nederlands taal) is spoken in country parts of north-west Germany as “Flat (lands) German” (plaat duits) with virtually every other word in Dutch or in German.
(b) Friese (de taal) is not normal Dutch. That is spoken in the north of the Netherlands.
(c) Dutch is spoken in the rest of Nederland.
(d) Dutch is spoken in the north and west of Belgium.
(e) Dutch is spoken in the north-north-west of France along the coast.
(f) Dutch is spoken in South Africa (a Dutch colony before the British arrived) but when it is shown on Dutch television it is accompanied by sub-titles; it is known as children’s Dutch. These days, following liberation, its use has declined in South Africa.
(g) Dutch is also spoken in a Sainsbury’s supermarket in the Home Counties only last week. I was trying to persuade the cashier, Asian looking, early twenties, who moved from Zandvoort 10 years ago to England, to say something in Dutch when a tall West Indian customer (brown coloured) interjected with amazingly fluent and an excellent Dutch accent asking me if I spoke it. ‘Natuurlijk mijnheer’ was my answer.
(h) Incidentally Spain colonised Holland. All the North of Ireland crap about Orange men and Order Orders originated from Spain via Holland and England. Today the Dutch still have their orange flags which they wave or fly alongside their national flag. The family name for the Dutch Royals is the House of Orange. The Dutch name for the orange fruit is sinaasappel not orange 🙂
> In particular you need to understand the complex process by which the once extensive County of Flanders came to be divided between three countries.
> First divided between Spain (Spanish Netherlands) and France under the terms of the ‘Pragmatic Sanction’ of 1549 and later again under the ‘Treaty of Nijmegan’ in 1678. You also need to appreciate how the Kingdom of the Netherlands came into existence (as the United Provinces of the Netherlands in 1581) and how the northern part of the County of Flanders (known as ‘Staats-Vlaanderen’) fell inside the borders of the United Provinces. So to claim, as you do, that the Flemings only live in Belgium is wrong. You make the simplistic mistake of confusing people who live within the autonomous “Flanders Region” inside Belgium (which has existed since 1970) whilst being totally unaware of those parts of historic Flanders lying beyond the borders of Belgium which have existed there since the Völkerwanderung of the 6th Century AD.
(26) In that case the Ancient Britons (The Taffies – those who enjoy confusing dual language road signs) should kick us foreigners out of the England we now occupy and call our home. Time for them Picts to take back the north of England into their Scotland ? The same or similar story can be told about other parts of Europe. Just think how much territory the Germans lost after the First World War and again after the Second World War. Don’t forget the massive size of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and about the changing borders of France with Germany. Poland is excellent example of a country never the same for very long.
> As of now there are Flemings speaking Flemish in France, Belgium and the Netherlands and they are as such a nation of people which share a language, culture and occupy the same territory (historic Flanders) but at the moment are divided between and have citizenship of three states.
(27) Zeker geen paspoort in drie verschillende versies ? (Definitely no passport in 3 versions ?) Never observed an affinity between the Dutch and the people living in the northern part of Belgium. Never noticed any Vlams banners in Nederland.
> There is no Belgian nation under the terms understood to define a nation.
(28) Yet there are people wandering about with Belgium passports and having Belgium vehicle number plates which are different from the Dutch and French ones.
(29) The biggest spying operation in the world, Google, claims
“Belgium, officially the Kingdom of Belgium, is a federal state in Western Europe.”
which is funny or strange because der Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Germany) is also a federal state; so too is Espana (Spain) und ook Osterreich (Eastern Kingdom = Austria). Why oh why is Belgium not a nation ? We have, I believe you assert, a so-called British nation but some of them Taffies speak Welsh and some of the Jocks in the Highlands and Islands and even in the big cities speak Gaelic. Obviously language is not a defining criteria for nationhood so that does deflate your assertion Belgie is geen staat. (Belgium is not a nation)
> Demonstrably the Walloons and the Flemings do not consider themselves to share a common national identity. They do, however, reside in the same state, the Kingdom of Belgium.
(30) Most of them don’t care too much. The Dutch-speaking north is richer and more industrial than the poorer French speaking south. However both sections call themselves either een België of une Belgique. For some of us the aggressive Dutch speaking northerners (the Flams or Vlams) are a bit like the headcases in Northern Ireland – nothing to boast about.
> And then you go into this bit which is really weird…
CC >> “Ethnic identity. is not a genuine identity. Certainly no passports are issued for it. The sole reason why Human Beings have lasted this long, is because of their ability to adapt to their changing circumstances. Hankering after a past which has never ever been their’s, but their parents or their grandparents is puzzling. The only reason for spreading ‘ethnic identity’ nonsense is because of a Labour Party desire to cause separatism not unity and stop or slow-down assimilation into the British community as one British (OK, currently UK) people.Ethnic identity advocates are de facto racists.”
> What is a “genuine identity” in your view? Are Kashmiri people “genuine”?? Surely by your rationale circumstances have changed, they are Indians now and had better lump it?
(31) The division of India was a British (whoops is that the correct word or should it be English ?) mess. The English mess exists today and Kashmir is an example. People living in Kashmir are obviously “genuine”. The line of control is genuine too. Self-determination for the Kashmiries seems like a good idea. Perhaps it should first became an UN Protectorate.
> No passports were issued for Latvians (etc) under the USSR but they still existed as a nation of people, didn’t they?
(32) That has nothing to do with nationality. It was just plain simple domination and ruthless control by the CCCP monster.
> Whilst I share your disdain for Labour I actually have a memory before 1997 and can tell you now that English people definitely existed before Tony Blair.
(33) What is an English person ? Answer: A migrant by either birth or decent. Although one has a good idea of whom one’s mother was (unless accidentally swapped in hospital) one’s biological father is inevitably less certain. He might have been a foreigner or a son of a foreigner and not one’s official father. Such things happen all the time even in England and, as some are acutely aware, even in prestigious families.
(34) The current English Royal Family are derived from mainland Europeans, German immigrants. Surnames of Battenberg became Mountbatten and of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha became Windsor. Diana was the English exception, more English than the Royal Family !
> I know that because I considered myself English and always have done. If anything socialists/communists have always sought to eradicate “ethnic identity” and it is the Tories who are usually called “Little Englanders” so I am afraid I have trouble understanding your catastrophic logic failure at this point…
(35) Several, perhaps many, Tories are immigrants or the children of immigrants. They adapted to England. Ditto with Labour MPs too.
> You have made some good points in other postings you have made but I am afraid I have to say there is a difference between national citizenship and national identity. There is a difference between holding a passport nd being part of nation of people.
(36) Any previous concept of ‘nationality’ has become uncertain, confusing and it is difficult to precisely define that term. No longer is England the same country I grew-up in and which I was once so proud of. If Cameron or his successor takes us out of the EU then I will change my nationality to that of another EU country. I don’t want to become an American citizen or more under the control of the Yanks than our country currently is. I am an European.
(37) I think your concerns originate from modern ghettos occupied by people from the Indian sub-continent and/or their children who were born here. Certainly there is a worrying lack of proper assimilation for which both Tory and Labour governments are to blame.
(38) The Germans always put immigrants into hostels for at least the first 6 months and taught them the German language, German history, German customs and, of course, all about German money. The scheme was, from my limited knowledge, very successful at integrating auslanders (foreigners) into German society. However, mainly from the former East Germany (once called the DDR), there are seriously dangerous skinhead Nazi-type groups attacking non-white looking people. Not all people from East Germany are bad, for instance Angela Merkel was an Ossi, an Ossi scientist. Mrs Merkel is called “Mummy” by some and is, as you all know, the wonderful German prime minister.
==================================================
The End.
I must away to do some real work. Fairwell. It has been interesting.
CC.
Hi Curious See-You-En-Tea
I live the lovely borough that this blog is aimed at.
Golly Sheraz,
You attended a school in the area I was born, before it became London. Small world.
Where have all the green fields gone ?
Dear Mrs/Ms/Mr Editor,
Can you change the header pictures ‘cos they all look so sad, dejected and politically impotent.
Your picture shows dumb Labour Party miserables not happy at the current, Labour-originated, mess in the ghastly London Boro of Twits Hamburgers & Chips. Chips being other people’s cash which Labuur spends like water.
Yours greatly gratefully,
C Cat.
What a tedious twit you are…
A boring discussion.
Just seen this, interesting in light of Ofcom ruling.
Much, much more interesting.
Click to access IGT_FOI_04_%206330-Channel%20S%20Awards%202.pdf