UPDATE at 11.30am: The flag was removed this morning as police arrived at Mulberry Place to discuss concerns raised with them by the Jewish community. There had been worries about inciting hatred…this in a borough that has a No Place for Hate policy. Full story on Express.co.uk here.
This is a Guest Post by Cllr Shahed Ali, Mayor Lutfur Rahman’s cabinet member for environmental services. He has been a passionate supporter of the Palestinian cause for many years and was at the forefront of yesterday’s decision to raise the Palestinian flag at the town hall. That decision by the mayor was backed by the Labour group at a full council meeting last night. (As always with guest posts, by hosting them, I’m not necessarily endorsing them.)
The UK and USA governments trot out the same excuses: “Israel has a right to defend itself, it needs to protect its citizens.” But as always with the media, whether that is the BBC or Sky News, this is not the full story. The military onslaught by the fourth largest military power supposedly targeting Gaza is so brutally disproportionate and indiscriminate that it makes it impossible not to view Israel’s actions as nothing short of war crimes against humanity.
Four Israeli citizens have died from these primitive rockets, with approximately 50 Israeli soldiers killed fighting on the ground. Compare that to the death toll in Gaza? Of the 1,200-plus already killed, more than 80 per cent are civilians, mostly women and infants. Israel brands them terrorists but it is acting as judge, jury and executioner in the concentration camp that is Gaza.
What happened to the Jewish people at the hands of the Nazis is appalling. But you would think those atrocities would give Israelis a unique sense of perspective and empathy with the victims of a ghetto. Where can these people escape to when Israel is bombing hospitals, places of worship and even UN schools acting as shelters, where exactly is it safe to flee to?
I was born and brought up in London. I grew up learning, being taught in secondary school, about the story of Anne Frank during Nazi Germany. I grew up reading the book and also watching the movie series ‘Holocaust’.
I recall these memories very fondly and close to my heart. This history of Nazi genocide upon the Jewish people brings a wave of emotion and tears to my eyes, and rightly so.
That is the reason why my IQ does not allow me to comprehend just how such atrocities can now be committed upon the Palestinian people in this day and age – the ideology to the denial of rights, dispossession and expulsion of the “indigenous population of historic Palestine”?
No doubt many will and have already questioned and criticised Mayor Lutfur Rahman for the decision to fly the Palestinian flag at a British public Town Hall. I say this to those who say Palestine is not an issue for Tower Hamlets: it very much is because we do not want the UK to become a breeding ground for young people who feel they have no choice but to express their anger and frustration for injustice by participating in military conflict abroad, whether they are Muslim, Arab, Jewish or Israeli.
Hamas is wrong to continue its DIY rocket attacks. But as Channel 4’s Jon Snow said this week: “If you strangle a people, deny them supply for years, extreme reaction is inevitable.” One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.
Tory Party chairman Grant Shapps is wrong to state we should not intervene on foreign affairs in the Middle East. It is we the people who vote to elect our government. Thousands of people have marched the streets of London and capital cities around the globe in solidarity against this injustice.
Foreign policy is most certainly in our interest and of concern to the British public. The attacks which took place on 7/7 cultivated from disgruntled British citizens in response to our foreign policy in the Middle East. Israel’s indiscriminate attacks upon civilian lives and our government turning a blind-eye will not solve this dispute.
They will just continue to create another generation of hate-filled Palestinians and others around the world, determined to fight against the injustice of being occupied, oppressed and slaughtered. The media is quick and correct to demonise British Muslims who choose to go abroad and participate in conflicts. But the same demonization should not be excluded to British Israelis who have also equally chosen to go abroad and participate with the Israeli Defence Force – both are wrong and both should be condemned.
I am extremely proud to be a member of Mayor Lutfur Rahman’s cabinet today at Tower Hamlets Council. I salute him for the courage he has demonstrated by agreeing to fly the Palestinian flag in solidarity with the hundreds of innocent children who are being slaughtered as we speak.
The British public cannot be a silent witness to this carnage one minute longer. Our government and the world must force Israel and Hamas to end this endless cycle of death, or we risk death and destruction much further afield to just the Holy land.
Trial by Jeory 
All Lutfur wants is a piece of the media frenzy because if he really cared for peace (no war), he`d fly the Israeli flag as well as the Arab Revolt flag.
And one more thing: well done Lutfur for offending and alienating an already fearful Tower Hamlets Jewish community.
TH’s Jews should have nothing to fear. They are not bombing and shelling innocent civilians.
CC.
I suspect that any Jew who had innocently driven into the Blackwall Tunnel and was met by the scene from the video posted below would have been very afraid indeed – and with good reason.
Tom.
Entire TH council and assorted Lutfur trolls on here atm voting this comment down. Desperate much? LOL
It’s about time we saw Lutfur and his cronies swinging from a flagpole. I’d be queuing with the rotten tomatoes and cabbages.
Why didn’t they fly the Hamas or ISIS flags?
After all, as an activist in an Islamist pro-Jamaat e Islami faction, why not be a bit more transparent about the sort of politics that they really do support.
Very nice. I’m glad councillors have managed to solve home-grown extremism. If only everything else in London was that simple…
Nice piece, and Israel’s bombing of the UN school is hard to justify. However I notice that two salient points seem to be missed;
– Palestine is always the aggressor. They may be militarily less strong, less advanced and weaker but you really would think that they would learn not to attack Israel by now. Their behaviour in this regard suggests that they are actually attacking Israel for other reasons, perhaps because it brings them attention and support from the West.
– Palestine has said that it wishes to wipe out the Nation of Israel, and refuses to retract that comment. Israel wishes to live peacefully, side-by-side. In the light of this, I find it very hard to feel any sympathy whatsoever for Palestine.
I’m no great supporter of Israel, but for The Despicable Rahman to show support for the Palestinian side without similar support (or even acknowledgement) of the Israeli side is disgusting. He badly needs to get his own house in order before dabbling in politics on the other side of the world.
(A cynic may point out that everyone who voted for Rahman was probably strongly pro-Palestine and hence this move does him no harm, but it will whip up division and hate which are two of his hallmarks.)
Tim.
Is your surname ‘Nice-But-Dim’? ‘Palestine is always the aggressor’ demonstrates that you have either a loose grasp of history and the concept of ‘ethnic cleansing in Palestine 1947-8’ or you cannot read.
As private citizens, all parties involved have the right to express their personal opinion on the ongoing conflict in Gaza.
However it is not the role of local government to comment on central government foreign policy.
If you wish to fly the Palestinian flag, do so from your home and not from a public building.
Or from the DLR bridge (northwards) and the many Palestine flags hanging from the public lamp posts on Cannon Street Road.
It may have escaped your notice but you were elected to run Tower Hamlets, not to get involved in international politics. Nobody elected you or your dreadful boss to engage in this sort of grandstanding. And, as I said on twitter, you were elected to represent all shades of opinion in the Borough and that includes Jewish residents, who will have as varied opinions as the rest of us but many of whom will be outraged to see a symbol used by the virulently anti-Semitic group Hamas over our Town Hall. All that this demonstrates, apart from the pretensions of a group of tinpot local politicians, is that you are only interested in representing your own constituency. Flying this flag is an outrage and you should take it down immediately.
One wonders why Michael Dempsey is such an uninformed bigot.
The Palestinian flag is conspicuously different from the Hamas flag – as everyone can see from a simply Google for “hamas flag”
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hamas+flag
Compare HAMAS flag http://militaryedge.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/flag-hamas.jpg
with PALESTINIAN flag http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Palestine_flag.jpg
If you can not truly see the difference perhaps you should pop-into SPEC SAVERS before your serious affliction causes you more embarrassment.
Curious Cat.
empty headed people always resort to abuse
This is a world problem . Tower Hamlets have enough problem he needs to deal with. It just another ploy by him to keep him name in the media after losing on Tuesday
He does not want cohesion in Tower Hamlets, although he keeps on about how much he does and he is here for every resident.
He shows this by doing it.
Will he fly a Union Jack on St Georges day? Will he fly it it at half mast on Monday 4th August WW1 Centenary. What is this council doing to commemorate the loss of those Towewr Hamlets men & woman who lost their lives?
As a resident, I welcome the council’s move to do this. Remembering the lives lost by raising a flag is the least we can do. Unison, the union, raise money aid and there isn’t a problem with that. I would have been concerned if the mayor was using our money to pay for something in Palestine but to be honest, a flag isn’t much.
I’m sure all sides will say remembering those fallen due to these war crimes isn’t a bad thing. It would be humane to think it’s acceptable for someone’s life to be taken away, especially civilians and children.
I think more local councils should lead by example. Why can’t we tackle issues locally instead of waiting for one decision maker in parliament to decide what we do next?
James, for more people have been killed in Iraq & Syria in the last month then in Gaza so why did we not raise a flag for them or organise a whip around. You seem to be suggesting that Councillors should take a lead on foreign policy issues, so do you want me this weekend to focus on rubbish in my ward or do you want me to fly to west africa to sort out the ebola problem?
Humanitarian matters, unrelated to the conduct of LBTH, should be mentioned, discussed and debated at a special Part 3 meeting immediately following the normal Part 1 meeting.
A Part 3 meeting can have the Public and Press directly participating.
Curious Cat
I hear you in regards to what’s going on else where and yes, your right that if you’re doing something for one thing, you should do it for all – although I’ve heard and seen more things about palestine then Iraq.
I don’t believe they should deal with foreign policy issue, but I believe they should represent my views, my neighbours views and all those who live in the borough.
They are in a position of power. The fact that they voted in the council meeting for the mayor to write a letter to the PM to me actually seems important? Why not? Collectively put the views on record?
I would love to see the mayor actually speak about it instead of hiding behind words. I see his quotes but don’t hear him actually say it. But the point behind it is the council are saying, too many deaths, not more please, do something to stop it.
& to answer your question, I do want you to focus on my rubbish, I don’t want you to fly over to west africa however I would love for you to say – James, I hear your concerned but don’t worry, the council will do everything we can to make sure it gets sorted.
=> James Martin
May I suggest the reasons might be:-
1. Someone else, perhaps from the council’s propaganda department (OK, Press Office) writes the words for His Worship ?
2. His Worship is not a lucid speaker of good descriptive and passionate English ?
3. His Worship simply lacks the ability to speak with inspiration and knowledge in English about any topic ?
Curious Cat.
James – you have a Member of Parliament elected to the Chamber which deals with foreign policy and international relations. Why don’t you speak to him or her?
Neither Mayor Rahman nor the Council have any remit with respect to international politics. They can of course express what they think as politicians – from their own constituency offices and in their own newsletters and at their own expense etc.
If Mayor Rahman and Cllr Ali care so much about Palestine what are they doing about the multi-million pound contract the council has with Veolia? That’ll be Veolia that has major commercial interests in the Occupied Territories.
Don’t forget that the council/mayor threaten to end its contract with Veolia unless they stopped trading in Israel. And they stopped.
There is no legal basis for a party to a contract to rescind that contract on the basis that a different legal entity – not legal personality – is trading in another country.
Only a raving nutter would dream of such stupidity, obviously oblivious to the vast amount of damages payable to Veolia.
But still this is Tower Hamlets and wasting public funds is one of the few things local government does really well.
Curious Cat
Not a lawyer.
Brilliant! Clearly there’s a causal link!
Lutfur in his little speech at the council meeting Wednesday called for a ceasefire in Gaza, and it seems this morning there is one. On this basis all we need Lutfur to do now is #bringbackourgirls, also for him to call for an end to global hunger, and the world can sleep easy.
I was told that there was more “supportive” activity on Monday night when cars blocked tunnels to show their solidarity with Palestine – does anyone know about that? I am amazed that the Council think that it is appropriate to take sides in such a public way. They are not representing me (again).
Yes, happened at Limehouse. Note the ISIS flag flying high…
That is a deeply concerning video. Thanks for posting it Lady Andrea.
At 47seconds the guy in the green top does a hitler salute complete with finger moustache. This must surely be ilegal- and the plates of his car must be traceable from the video? Anyone know whether this is an ilegal act in the context?
This concerns me a lot 😦 I wouldn’t know what to do if I was in this situation. I do hope its something the police are looking into?
Did Mayor Rahman fly the Israeli Flag on Holocaust Day in April? Or is he displaying a very partial approach to international politics?
How long is the Palestinian flag going to fly at the Town Hall?
For the record I’m with the UN with respect to what is happening in Gaza. However what I think as an individual is my affair.
What a local Council does needs to enjoy the support of most of its community and should at ALL times embrace diversity and foster inclusion. Otherwise it is no better than those who foster division and worse.
I very much prefer Council publicity to focus on the PRACTICAL actions of those individuals who are doing their very best to promote social cohesion as opposed to those who doing their very best to use a bit of symbolism to get a bit more PR for themselves.
Let’s all think of some of the reasons why somebody would vote this comment down
Then have a long hard think about what that says about Mayor Rahman and his supporters and their willingness to promote social cohesion.
Of course Shahed Ali has every right to pass on hamas propaganda but,in case you are interested(?) here is a link to another perspective on the situation in Gaza which is probably nearer the truth than what you are reporting.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4518/media-hamas
At its heart, yesterday’s decision to fly the Palestinian flag at the town hall is partly about cheap politics. It enables Lutfur to score points with the more extreme elements of his support ( IFE etc and old school lefties) whilst also taking the focus away from bad press about Poplar town hall and the court action regarding the election.
It does however also a more sinister side to it, namely an anti-Semitic undertone. To be clear, criticism of Israel is of itself not anti- Semitic. There are legitimate reasons to make criticism of its actions.
The issue here though is the selective nature of the flying of the Palestinian flag. There are many terrible conflicts (and far more bloody ones) that have occurred during these past five years and indeed are ongoing. Why single out Israel ? Essentially because of the anti Jewish feeling that permeates sections of our community. For example, currently in Iraq, one of the oldest Christian communities in the middle east is being systematically persecuted and ejected from its home. Will Lutfur be raising a cross at Mulberry to show sympathy with them? It is estimated by some that ISIS killed 1600 people in a single day recently in Iraq. Why no motion about that ?
If my memory serves me correctly, when Lutfur was elected first time around one of the first motions that the council passed was about not wanting to work with Velolia because they had contracts in Israel. For all its faults, Israel is far more progressive and democratic than many other Middle Eastern states. Why single out Israel? in short because of an acceptance of Anti-Semitic attitudes that need to be challenged. There simply is no consistency here. It seems that when a Jewish state is involved, a special case is made for condemnation.
The poster’s article is naïve, inaccurate and one sided. He talks of the children that Israel has killed whilst forgetting the 160+ kids that even a pro-Palestinian research centre estimates died constructing tunnels for Hamas as a result of coercion. He even has the audacity to claim that flying the flag can is some ways be linked to dealing with domestic terrorism, putting the blame for 7/7 at the door of UK foreign policy. This from an administration that has links with and indeed has welcomed extremists at the town hall. Maybe Lutfur and his cabinet need to look closer to home if they are really interested in dealing with extremism. It is to the Labour Partys shame that they have also gone along with this.
To top it all he makes the lazy and unbelievably crass comparison of the situation in Gaza to the Holocaust, comparing what is happening there to the systematic extermination of (6 million?) Jews. Words escape me. There are plenty of things to criticise Israel for, but this is about grand standing and the main streaming of anti Semitism. This needs challenging.
Looks like the Lutfur-paid trolls are active on this again, voting up the ones they like and down the ones they don’t.
I am guessing that this publicity stunt’s timing to coincide with the failure to block the election challenge is pure coincidence.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/29/tower-hamlets-mayor-lutfur-rahman-election-challenge
Tim.
Tim – I was about to say exactly the same thing.
Let’s not forget that this Mayor and his administration are currently going to be showboating in the High Court this year – explaining their responses to the petition with respect to the corruption of the election results.
Then let’s not forget the PWC report and the failure of the Rahman administration to provide the necessary material for the auditors to complete their report to the timescale required by Pickles.
Then there’s the current police investigations relating to fraud of various sorts
There does appear to be an awful lot that Mayor Rahman would like to try and bury.
Yes, what has happened to that PWC report? It was delayed to the end of July, which is today. I expect it will be reported on here soon enough.
That rather depends on whether the officers who were suppose to be digging out all the necessary files did their jobs properly.
Or maybe we should ask whether they were allowed to do their jobs properly?
Any other Council would have been able to produce the documentation within the required timescale.
So how come Tower Hamlets couldn’t?
More coverage of the flying of the Palestinian flag in the Telegraph – and no it’s not an article by Andrew Gilligan
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11001371/Muslim-mayor-of-Tower-Hamlets-orders-the-Palestinian-flag-to-fly-over-town-hall-in-solidarity-with-Gaza.html
Plus the Daily Mail weighs in with an article which has already attracted 4,763 shares and nearly a thousand comments
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2710998/Tower-Hamlets-Mayor-Lutfur-Rahman-orders-Palestinian-flag-fly-town-hall-solidarity-Gaza.html
Then we have The Evening Standard
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tower-hamlets-mayor-lutfur-rahman-sparks-more-controversy-by-flying-palestinian-flag-over-town-hall-9639242.html
It also highlights for easy reference all its other recent articles about Tower Hamlets Council, Mayor Rahman and the recent election.
How exactly does any of this add to the reputation of Tower Hamlets as a good place to live and work?
according to the Standard it was removed after a warning from Scotland Yard. I wonder why it had to go as far as Scotland Yard and was not dealt with by the local Borough Commander?
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tower-hamlets-council-removes-palestinian-flag-after-warning-from-scotland-yard-9639947.html
I’m also wondering whether more than a few staff complained to the Police?
and Ted reports for the Express
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/493780/Palestinian-flag-town-hall-Tower-Hamlets-Gaza
BREAKING – Tower Hamlets police confirm on Twitter they attended the council and got Arab Revolt flag removed.
I’d check the Twitter accounts if I were you – neither shows the tweets represented above.
No need to lie. I posted the link. Perhaps you should learn how to use twitter
Are you sure? They seem legit to me.
I know how to use Twitter, frequently do and I’m not suggesting you’re lying.
All I’m saying is I couldn’t see any evidence of these tweets on either account when I clicked the names embedded in the tweets e.g. https://twitter.com/MPSTowerHam
However what is now apparent is they are listed under “tweets and replies” i.e. https://twitter.com/MPSTowerHam/with_replies
Damned good thing too. Well done TH Police.
Not the best article I’ve read on Gaza, but take a look at what the former UK Deputy Prime Minister (1997 – 2007) is saying.
Do you agree with John Prescott? Is Israel’s bombardment of Gaza a war crime?
Look and vote in the poll at the bottom. 60% of people so far have voted YES.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/john-prescott-israels-bombardment-gaza-3918413
Well done Police, be good if some-one was charge . Now Mayor trolls go away you lost.
If your mayor had flown the Jewish flag when Jewish Israeli teenagers were being executed in a field then you might have an argument.
The truth is that this is yet more divisive politics being demonstrated my the Mayor. He is pandering to the Islamic vote in tower hamlets at the blatant expense of peace and harmony with other members of our community. It sucks.
I was personally shouted at by five youths waving Palestine placards last week on Coke Street Whitechapel. It was viscous and intimidating. My crime? I said ” I don’t agree with you.”
I would doubt many of the people The mayor is pandering to could point out the Gaza Strip on a map .
Further – and this is where our wider society needs to think things through. By doing this the mayor is politicising Islam – Islam as a faith is being used to make political points.
That is wrong and dangerous
Police confirm Palestinian flag on Tower Hamlets town hall removed following safety concerns from Jewish community http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/494046/Palestinian-flag-over-Tower-Hamlets-town-hall-REMOVED-after-Jewish-safety-concerns …
Why did they not fly a flag representing PEACE, rather than take sides?
That video in Blackwall tunnel is really shocking.
Over the weekend there was a “pop up” charity car wash in Grove/Clinton Road E3 to raise money for Gaza. The Palestinian flag, countless anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian placards were prominent throughout. “Free Palestine.. Israel out” must have been shouted a thousand times (I don’t exaggerate).
A Marquee was erected; cars parked all over the grass; there was gridlock in Clinton Road so residents found it difficult to get in and out; fundraisers [read “protesters”] were jumping out waving placards into Grove Road as traffic tried to drive past and I witnessed 3 ambulances and countless police cars with their blues and twos on having to speed past on the opposite side of the road due to the congestion. This at a crossing that has previously seen fatal traffic accidents.
An 80 year old woman went and took lots of the banners down (secured to the crossing railings). When challenged the organisers said they had the council’s permission. Indeed the water for the car wash was supplied from a standpipe the fundraisers had rigged up to the mains water inside Mile End Park.
THIS WENT ON SAT AND SUN APPROX MIDDAY TO MIDNIGHT ON BOTH DAYS
The police were called by several people but deemed “no action necessary”
Interesting post JohnJee – I saw that ‘charity carwash’ as well and was disgusted by it. The people of Palestine deserve better than the support of a disorganised and dangerous mob such as that. Anyone who was involved in it should hang their heads in shame – it bought no credit to their cause whatsoever.
I was one of the ones who reported it to the police and can confirm that their level of interest was negligible.
Tim.
You can’t raise money in the street without having a licence from the Council and I believe that licence has to be displayed by every person involved. So did they have a licence and did they display it properly?
You can’t block off a road or a pavement without permission from the Council and any application to do so should also enable local residents to comment before the licence is granted. So did they apply for use of the area and did the local residents get a chance to comment as to whether or not it was appropriate?
You can’t jump into the road and disrupt traffic. I forget what the law is but it’s the one which the police use all the time throughout London to pick up people who are demonstrating.
I’m not saying that attempting to raise money for any cause is a bad thing but going about it in a way which is illegal and/or antagonises people is a really bad idea.
People who behave as if the local community counts for nothing and that rules and laws don’t apply to them are usually called ‘rebels’.
Is that really the best way to demonstrate and raise money?
=> You couldn’t make it up!
Probably obstruction of the Highway, probably from the Highways Act 1980.
CC.
Tower Hamlets police more often than not bury their heads in the proverbial sand when it comes to enforcing the law of the land on the majority Muslim community. I assume its fear to be labelled racists/islamophobes
what law are they not enforcing lady gaga? which laws are the muslim community breaking?
Enough has been said about flying that flag. At last nights council meeting a councillor wore a Palestinian T shirt, any Jewish people at the meeting I imagine would have been deeply offended. It should not have been allowed.
I was shocked to see the video of the Limehouse Link. The Highway and the Link are constantly in use by Fire, Police and ambulances, did the protesters think of that?
And Ted…I hope your tweet about my comment regarding Rabina Khan was a joke?…..You naughty boy!
Everyone knew it was a joke John!
Well,
1. The British invented the idea of giving Arab land, which the British did not care about, to the Jews.
2. The Holocaust primarily murdered Jews but also non-Jews.
3. Stalin murdered circa 26 million but no one cares or even remembers.
4. If the Holocaust was wrong, so too is the shelling and bombing of innocent civilians in Gaza.
5. When Hamas seized power of Gaza about 8? years ago, Israel imposed a siege / blockade on Gaza adversely affecting the innocent civilians.
6. In retaliation for the siege Hamas fires rockets – usually the rockets do not kill people, but on occasions they do murder civilians.
7. Because Israel is run by extremists, they will not talk to their emeries – not even for peace. Instead Israel murders the innocent civilians in Gaza. If Benjamin Netanyahu was not such a coward, he would pick-up his phone and talk to Hamas saying
8. The Palestinian flag is not Hamas’ flag – it is the flag of the Arab people of Palestine.
9. It is sad, it is sick and it is genocide. Above all, this senseless violence is morally wrong. I have never ever seen a new born baby or even a 5 year old holding a gun, firing a rocket or wanting to kill Jews. Peace is the solution so too is a gigantic dose of plain common sense and a massive amount of real HUMANITY.
10. Circa 1,400 Palestine dead. Circa 4,600 injured. Their murder is a war crime.
STOP THE KILLINGS, now !
There is a lot to be said for the slogan: Make Love Not War. Not even wild animals behave this badly.
Curious Cat.
Want to watch a circus in town . Called Tower Hamlets Full council
http://www.towerhamlets.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/143434
Welcome zionist trolls. It is good to see you guys on ted’s blog. The comments section is the natural gathering place for all UK fascists after all.
What exactly do you mean by Zionist?
Zionist
Zionism \Zi”on*ism\, n. [Zion + -ism.]
Among the Jews, a theory, plan, or movement for colonizing
their own race in Palestine, the land of Zion, or, if that is
impracticable, elsewhere, either for religious or
nationalizing purposes; — called also {Zion movement}. —
{Zi”on*ist}, n. — {Zi`on*is”tic}, a.
[Webster 1913 Suppl.]
I would like to know what Sirius means by it.
You should now by now, Ted, in Tower Hamlets a ‘Zionist’ is someone who has the temerity to not agree with the view that the Jews should be driven into the sea by Hamas & Co.
More dictionary definitions – from the Oxford University Press
For Zion – try http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Zion
The hill of Jerusalem on which the city of David was built.
1.1 Jerusalem.
1.2 The Jewish people or religion.
For Zionist – try http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Zionism
1A movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.
pretty simple really. those apologists/cheerleaders for Israeli state murder.
It’s what I thought you meant. Either educate yourself or be a little more careful with your words and insults.
why so Ted? I understand it is a nuanced term – I don’t necessarily mean all those who are in favour of an Israeli state per se, but those who support and advocate for the state. But then again – do you use the same nuance when you describe “Islamists”. I very much doubt it.
well said, Ted
I’ve been reading an article elsewhere which suggests that a very clear and strong distinction needs to be made between religious movements and politicians/government.
Religion is not government and politics is not a religion.
Political leaders are not religious leaders – or vice versa.
One can very easily condemn what governments and politicians do without hating a specific religion and/or those who believe it.
Lutfur Will Face Trial For Fraud. AT LONG LAST http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/?news_id=37728 … pic.twitter.com/XmJK848jKG
Wow !
Its not a trial but a private law (civil) hearing of the election petition by a skilled QC appointed by two judges of the Queens Bench Division of the High Court, Strand WC2. There will be a witness box, which may not look exactly like a conventional witness box – probably a table and chair.
If the court discovers criminal conduct everyone can be assured the fuzz will be coming for them and the CPS will appoint some of the best brainy barristers as prosecutors.
A person wearing ordinary clothes is likely to attend every single hearing. That person will represent the CPS / Director of Public Prosecutions. These hearings are as serious as things can get before an actual criminal trial.
Curious Cat
More interestingly, the Bangladesh Press reported it in the same way…
http://bdnews24.com/world/2014/07/29/tower-hamlets-mayor-lutfur-rahman-to-stand-trial
who cares if there killing each other,just want the council to clean the rds,take the rubbish,turn the lights on etc…life was so happy/good before the mayor & the bangla mafia come to town..welcome to the islamic state of tower hamlets…
so Ted, will you cenure people like Andrea and Terry Rowe for their derogatory insults towards bengalis/ Muslims?
Yes
good censure
Very disconcerting to see this kind of sectarian gesture from the Council. The only flag that should be flying from the town hall is the Union Flag. It is inappropriate for a public building to display any flag or other material that is connected to a political cause or represents one section of society, whether it is Palestine or gay rights (I have previously seen the rainbow flag flying on the same pole at Mulberry Place), or any other agenda – this is not a legitimate function of local government. This kind of political activity by councils should be prohibited by law. It is not what I pay my taxes for.
Is this evidence of an emboldened Rahman now letting the mask slip on an Islamist agenda, or is it the usual juvenile lefty protest politics? If the former then we need to be concerned.
UKIP’s wrong again.
Borough flag, local flag, English flag and even county flags are encouraged by the government. Surely every aspiring local councillor knows that? Personally I would like more EU flags 🙂
CC.
But all those flags relate to the place and the government of it.
Not to political causes in a completely different place.
I think mwebberukip has a point and I feel sure he could extend his portfolio of permissable flags to all those which relate to the government of Tower Hamlets.
Which is why it’s important that flags are NOT flown which send out mixed messages.
Palestine has a government and a voice at the United Nations but is still subjugated by Israel.
Never mind removing the Palestine flag – Add the Israeli flag and the words “We Want Peace” and, hopefully, many would support the idea.
CC.
What a pedant.
How utterly disgusting it is for Shahed Ali to compare the holocaust with what is happening in the Middle East? As if the Nazis were reacting to rocket fire from the Jews. As if Anne Frank voted in an election for a manifesto commitment to the destruction of Germany and her entire population?
Why could anyone defend the mayor and his Councillors from the charge of extremism, when they use the dignity of the town hall to propagate such a nasty twisting of facts, as to criticize the families of 6 million murdered, by comparing them to the Nazis?
Save your crocodile tears, Shahid. We see them for what they are.
Blatantly murdering innocent civilians from babies to old pensioners in the name of political expediency and enhanced re-election prospects is simply not right.
Both the extermination of circa 6 million Jews and others plus the extermination of 26 million by Stalin were wrong. So too is the bombing and shelling of innocent civilians.
There is only one standard of decency available to honourable people – Murder is wrong. No good apologising after the whole world criticises Israel’s action – apologies never ever brought anyone back to life.
Anna Frank hid in an attic (zolder in het Nederlands) in Holland (think it was Amsterdam).
Peace to all.
Curious Cat.
Well said Dan
Dan,
It’s a strange day today – I find myself agreeing with you! Thanks, they’re good points.
Tim.
Yes, very well said Dan. I somehow doubt Shahed concentrated in history or else he would not compare the collateral damage in Gaza with true attempts at genocide against Jews under the Nazis, the Armenians at the end of WW1 and most recently in Rwanda. These organised, planned and deliberate efforts to literally eradicate a whole race of people are quite different in scope and scale than what’s happening in Gaza. The efforts to eradicte Syriac, Copt and other Christian groups in Iraq, Syria and Egypt by ISIS et al is far closer to true genocide… but I suspect Shahed supports a global Caliphate doesn’t he… So do you Shahed?
This is Great Britain and not an Islamic state and the Palestinian flag should not be flown on any building in our country. If those flying the flag were really about peace they would urge Hamas to stop hiding behind women and children and stop firing rockets into Israel.
The tax dodging and illegal immigrant employing Lutfurite Shahed Ali has his priorities wrong – again!
i beg to differ, this is exactly what i pay my my taxes for. For my politicians to stand for something. Not to be spineless and supine in the way their Westminster counterparts have behaved. It shows them that not all those in the UK have contempt for arab lives. There are some leaders/ politicians who are willing to stand up and say this is wrong and we should applaud him for that.
Sirius, you’ve made a huge and uninformed leap from local Councillor to Westminster. confirming again, just how deluded you are.
not really. Do you really think you are the only one that knows the difference between a councillor and MP?
they are both supposed to be my representatives. were councils wrong to show solidarity with apartheid in the 80’s?
I doubt it. Stick to the point.
And what if they aren’t YOUR politicians? 🙂
then I won’t vote for them.
We pay our taxes in relation to our local authority for our politicians to stand up for matters relating to the place where we live.
There are always politicians who’d like to make statements beyond the scope of the Council’s activities – and they can do that – within their own political party, at their own meetings, on their own premises and funded by their own political funds.
Nobody has got a problem with a political party – as a political party – taking a position.
Lots of people have a major problem with a political party trying to use a local authority for its own ends.
Don’t expect public funds to be used for your own politicking. Remember that if you do somebody will ask for the auditors and/or the police to come in and review whether public funds have been used in a proper and appropriate way.
But I think that’s a message which has still to sink in around here……..
I see the Daily Mail has now picked up on the tunnel incident
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711635/Protesters-block-London-road-tunnel-waving-flags-experts-claim-used-extremist-groups-including-TALIBAN-Free-Palestine-rally.html
and Mayor Rahman and the flag episode are now on the BBC News website http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28580023
Ted – I’m beginning to think all the newspapers based in London now read your blog!
The Metro has now picked up on the tunnel demonstration
http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/31/watch-masked-jihadists-wave-isis-flags-and-chant-as-they-blockade-londons-blackwall-tunnel-4816474/
This Ramadan has been particularly difficult for me, my family and friends. We were focused on the hardships of Palestinians struggling through this massacre which has gotten worse. No one I know hates Jews, no body I met on the marches hate Jews instead they sympathise with the Jewish people’s past struggles. The criticism is towards Israel’s so called Defense Force which continues to kill children. It’s disproportionate and heartless. It’s an open air prison in Palestine. We need to address genuine human concerns. Lutfur Rahman or the Council, whoever it was, were right to fly the flag.
I do not know a lot about either Palestine or Israel. I have never beet to either of them and have no intention of visiting.
I live in Tower Hamlets and pay my council tax here. I am not happy seeing flags of other countries outside the Town Hall.
I am even more unhappy – outraged would be a better word perhaps – to see Shahed Ali being allowed to express his views in a public domain. This is the man who just over a year ago was saying that residents suffering disturbance (noise, drugs, urinating, damages) from the festivals arranged by the Council in Victoria Park should move homes and live elsewhere. This is a really nasty, heartless, wannabe politician who claims to understand Middle East problems, claims to know solutions for them, but at the same time aggressively attacks older residents and families of his own borough with threats of relocation.
It has over a year now and Shahed Ali still did not issue any formal apology. He says he was born and brought up in London – with his divisive, racist and confrontational behaviour he would never be a true Londoner though.
I do not mind getting to know other points of view, learning about other approaches than my own, I am afraid though that allowing Shahed Ali to express his views here is simply not fair to residents of this borough.
Oliur Rahman apologised for his excessive taxi expenses, Lutfur Rahman publicly apologised for his doggy references for Zamal Uddin, Alibor Choudhury apologised for his black shirts remarks. Shahed Ali still – after over a year – has no courage and decency to apologise.
=> Peter
I am not happy seeing flags of other countries outside the Town Hall.
I welcome seeing foreign flags flown. My natural curiosity would make me quire why.
I am even more unhappy – outraged would be a better word perhaps – to see Shahed Ali being allowed to express his views in a public domain.
Freedom of Speech – that legally allows you to express your opinion here – is a Human Right. Human Rights are shared equally by many people.
I have read Shahed Ali’s posting several times. It is well written by an intelligent person. Does anyone know if he actually wrote it himself or whether someone else wrote it for him ?
Politicians often employ speech writers to create the passion, concern and commitment they, themselves, regrettably lack.
Curious Cat.
I’m told it v closely resembles a John Prescott article in the Mirror. Word for word in places.
In fact this: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/john-prescott-israels-bombardment-gaza-3918413
Can I as the host of a blog post be done for plagiarism??
That is what the Conservative Party does.
A letter is prepared then send to constituencies throughout the country who are told send this to your local newspaper and change one or two bits to suit local circumstances.
If it was a political ploy, then should those that wilfully abuse the public’s trust and confidence for blatantly political purposes (and thus lacking genuine non-political concern for the suffering of others) profoundly apologise then resign ? I think they should.
Curious Cat.
Shahed Ali is recycling Prescott’s sloppy seconds? That’s the funniest thing I have heard for quite a while! How low can a man go to have to do that!
=> Ted,
Parts of the Mirror article may have been created by John Prescott but other bits seem to have been written by someone else.
Did Prescott plagiarise someone else’s work ?
I assume His Worship wanted lots of favourable publicity following his unsuccessful (nonsensical) challenge to the election petition.
So someone else’s tragedy was hijacked to inflate His Worships ego and reputation. Only a cynical politician would do that.
Curious Cat.
Ted – maybe you could ask John Prescott for a quote on him being quoted?
Latest
only white people are racist…..!!!
According to East London Advertiser in an article published today “Revealed: Mayor’s letters in bid to stop Panorama on Tower Hamlets” http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/revealed_mayor_s_letters_in_bid_to_stop_panorama_on_tower_hamlets_1_3707722
Mayor Rahman was apparently very concerned that the BBC programme
[quote}”could make the borough a target for attacks by far-right groups like the EDL and put “at risk residents’ personal safety”, adding that “the risk of disorder is high” and could “damage the ability of Canary Wharf to attract international investors”.[end quote]
So what does he think flying the Palestinian flag might do?
Furthermore, using the Town Hall to make political statements in effect issues an open invitation to the EDL and any other extreme party to demonstrate in support of their views at the Town Hall.
Or is it another case of one rule for one group and another rule for others?
What do the staff feel about working in a Town Hall in such circumstances?
What do such actions do to the chances of the Council being able to recruit good staff in future given the way the Council’s reputation is trashed again and again?
We’ve already seen one example of gross disorder in the Blackwall Tunnel. Any more and Scotland Yard will have to ramp up the policing in the borough dramatically and then recharge that to the Council……
Very many people would like to see a Council that
* demonstrates a consistent and equal approach to all groups
* complies with the law,
* helps to prevent the scope for public disorder,
* fosters law and order in the borough and
* promotes social cohesion between all groups everywhere in the borough.
Is that really too much to ask?
Please understand that I think the actions of both Hamas and the Israeli government are equally abhorrent. I don’t support either. The deaths of ALL civilians and children are equally dreadful no matter what side of the conflict they are on.
I also think people should be allowed to demonstrate in peaceable ways in appropriate places.
However I really don’t think our Town Hall is the place to fly flags or express views about conflicts in other parts of the world.
There are just too many potential knock-on effects in terms of the scope it gives for yet more demonstrations and public disorder…….
At last night’s council meeting we spent the first 40 minutes discussing the situation in Gaza including two similar emergency motions from Labour and the Mayors group. It was interesting that the Mayors proposal was more balanced and better written then the Labour motion, in fact if it had not been for the first sentence I might have voted to accept the Mayors motion but the first sentence implied that Israel alone had started the war whereas it was the murder of three young Israeli teenagers hitch-hiking home and the recent election of President el-Sisi in Egypt that were instrumental in the war starting.
Spending 40 minutes on Gaza at the beginning of the meeting meant that we ran out of time to talk about issues that directly affect Tower Hamlets, for example we did not properly discuss the next item on the agenda, the change in GP surgery funding nor motions on affordable homes, access to Cabinet/Committee papers or private landlords, all issues where Tower Hamlets Council has a role to play and for which Councillors were elected to deal with.
Tower Hamlets Council lacks the remit and expertise to play a serious role in Britain’s foreign policy. That is why we elect two members of Parliament to deal with these issues.
If Tower Hamlets Council were to have a foreign policy or to comment on foreign issues I would then be deeply concerned about why the Council is ignoring the wider issues in the Middle East. Far more civilians have been killed in Syria & Iraq this year then have been killed so far in Gaza. For example two weeks ago 700 people were killed in Syria over two days of fighting, 1,800 dead in July so far, in Iraq 5,500 civilians have been killed in the last six months, 2,417 in June alone. There will be a ceasefire in Gaza eventually but Syria and Iraq will continue to suffer for years and possibly decades from the civil war between Shia & Sunni, the conflict between authoritarian governments and Islamists and the regional rivalry between Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Egypt & Qatar. In addition 2,053 people mainly Muslims have been killed in Nigeria this year and the two hundred school girls are still missing (some of their parents were killed last week by Boko Haram). In addition the Rohingya Muslims are still being oppressed in Burma. In the last few months the map of Europe has been violently redrawn with the occupation of Crimea (home to an ancient and greatly oppressed group the Crimean Tartars (also Muslims)) and thousands have died in Eastern Ukraine. Why did we not have a minutes silence for the MH17 flight passengers and crew? Why are we only discussing one issue and only flying the flag of one group. Where is the Ukrainian flag or the Free Syrian flag?
I am also deeply concerned about the lack of knowledge shown by councillors but then that should not be a surprise; none of us were elected on the basis of our foreign policy expertise. Not once in the campaign did anybody ask or raise any issues outside of the UK with the exception of a few questions on Europe. Having lived in the Middle East and have visited every country in the region except Israel, Palestine, Yemen and Iraq I feel that I have some knowledge of the region but that is not why I was selected or elected. My mother is German and in her home town is a memorial to the synagogue destroyed in 1938 and to the vibrant Jewish community that was wiped out when politicians started treating one group as somehow different and deserving of special treatment. It always mystified me as to how apparently sane and sensible people were so willing to butcher their neighbour, that is a warning to us as well not to repeat the mistakes of history and to start demonising one group. The genocide in Bangladesh during 1971 is another more recent example of the dangers of how politics can lead to slaughter.
It is also dangerous to form your opinions purely based on television pictures or Facebook postings, a number of which have turned out to be either faked or in one shocking video of a completely different conflict, a video of Lebanese Sunni children taunting and abusing a Shia boy was claimed to be of Israeli children attacking a Palestinian boy. For example no mention was made in the motions last night on the role of Egypt in the conflict. A quarter of Gaza’s border is with Egypt, as Hamas was associated with the Muslim Brotherhood the current Egyptian government has chosen to crack down on the tunnels connecting Egypt to Gaza, the tax on trade through those tunnels was Hamas’s main source of revenue but Hamas cannot attack Egypt so it attacks Israel instead to try and deflect attention from its own failings. The Israeli blockade people complain about is also an Egyptian blockade not just an Israeli one.
I am also concerned that we are picking sides and that in doing so we give comfort to Hamas. I have a huge amount of sympathy for the civilians in Gaza, they have been let down by the world but they have also been badly let down by Hamas. Hamas had an opportunity when Israel evacuated the Gaza strip to build a strong peaceful community and do not forget many Gazans used to commute to work in Israel, they still even now receive medical care there. But instead of building concrete bomb shelters to protect its civilians Hamas has spent the last few years building concrete tunnels whose sole purpose is to attack Israel. They launch rockets indiscriminately at Israel with no attempt at targeting only military targets. They have also now on three occasions being caught by the UN hiding rockets in UN schools knowing that Israel will try to avoid bombing those sites.
I also believe that Israel has made many mistakes and most of its policy towards the Palestinians has been deeply counter-productive. Some of its recent actions I believe have been criminally negligent. I also object to the occupation of the West Bank, peace cannot be established while the settlements continue to expand but it would be a mistake to blame them solely for what happens in the region.
But put yourselves in the shoes of an Israeli. You pulled out of Gaza unilaterally in 2005, that territory was then taken over by a group in 2007 whose avowed aim is to destroy you, they then launch thousands of rockets indiscriminately at you and spend years building underground tunnels to attack your citizens. I am not sure that any nation is going to respond to that situation with much forbearance.
One of the great tragedies of Palestinian history has been the involvement of outside governments who use the suffering of Palestinians for their own political ends but who are then abandoned when attention turns elsewhere. In the meantime here at home we are greatly at risk of creating anti-Semitic feelings in the East End of London by the bias shown to one side. The reality is that both sides are at fault in this war but the Council by picking a side is suggesting to people that the war is a simple matter of good and evil and by default since the Palestinians are the victims that the Israelis are therefore the evil ones. It is by such simplistic assumptions that the Council should be trying to reverse by educating people on the history of the conflict. I would like to end with a request that we please focus on Tower Hamlets at future council meetings, last night was good theatre, it was not good government.
It sounds worse than the Nelson Mandela motion they debated earlier this year. I had the misfortune to sit through that one in the public gallery.
This is like the loony left councils of the 1980s. Is there a bust of Lenin in the basement of the town hall, ready to be dusted off for display in the lobby? What will be next, a Che Guevara day?
If you elect these kinds of people you will get this kind of student politics, when what we actually want is an efficient administration of local government.
Well said Andrew. Thank you for bringing some perspective to the situation. It was in dire need of a wider perspective and relevant data.
In particular thank you for highlighting for us all the issues relevant to the population of Tower Hamlets which were NOT discussed by Councillors.
Frankly given the critical importance of some of those issues to local residents I find that absolutely appalling.
The scope of the activities of this Council is limited to this borough.
The fact that something may concern some of the local community is a redundant argument. There are a HUGE number of issues which concern the community of people living in Tower Hamlets – none of which have any relevance whatsoever to the activities of the Council or the area of this borough. I don’t expect the Council to debate any of those either.
The ONLY matters suitable for discussion at full Council are those that are strictly within the legal remit and statutory authority of the Borough and relate to the area of the Borough.
By all means, if a political party wants to make its views known on a topic of current interest that is unrelated to the borough then it should do so.
However this should only ever be done:
* as a political party (NOT as the Council ie
“13.3 Scope of Motions. Motions must be about matters for which the Council has a responsibility or which affect the area. ”
and
“Decisions taken by any party political group meeting are not relevant to proper consideration of an issue by the Council under its Constitution. ”
as defined by the Council Constitution )
* at its own expense (NOT the Council’s expense – i.e. ineligible for Councillor Allowance or travel expenses; council officers should not be party to such activities
“It must be recognised by all officers and Members that in discharging their duties and responsibilities officers serve the Council as a whole and not exclusively any political group, combination of groups or any individual Member of the Council.”
and
“In this context, it should be realised that officer support to the political groups is in the context of their role in the discharge of Council business and although it may require liaison with political parties, at both local and national level, should not be used in promoting the views of an individual political party or undertaking campaigning or other party political business” as per the Constitution)
* in premises associated with the political party (i.e. NOT the Town Hall or any other properties funded by the Council unless rented by the political party for a meeting as per the Constitution
“You must use any Council facilities provided for you in your role as Member strictly for that purpose and no other. For example, you must not use rooms in the Town Hall or other buildings or any of the Council’s paper, computers, photocopiers, or printers for any personal, business related or party political matter, nor, for example, on behalf of any community groups of which you are a member, unless formal approval has been given by the appropriate chief officer.”)
Andrew
* I’d be very interested to know precisely what part of the Constitution and legal authority the Council used for discussion of the Gaza issue in full Council. Perhaps you could find out?
* Maybe you could also ask how much those 40 minutes cost the taxpayers of Tower Hamlets?
IMO if a Councillor wants to claim an expense or an allowance then he or she better be paying attention to the matters of this borough for the whole of the Council and committee meetings they attend.
Otherwise people will start to feel as if they are paying for Councillors to play at international politics and consequently that the Councillors are defrauding the taxpayer.
Then we’ll have more calls for yet another investigation about the use of public funds and yet another visit from the auditors……….
Ted
It seems Tower Hamlets and your blog are becoming a battleground for Israeli and Muslim propagandist’s.
Hoisting the Palastinian flag over the Town Hall is an obvious play to Lutfur’s electoral constituency, daft Council’s all over the country pull these stunts from time to time, they are best ignored in the short term then voted out when the oppurtunity comes.
The sudden advent of anonymous bloggers howling with rage over the flag does seem like Zionist bloggers anxious to deflect our attention away from the activities of the murderous Israeli Defence Force and the theft of thousands of acres of Palestininan land by Israeli settlers. The right wing press is full of them.
Dissappointed with Andrew Woods indifference and peddling of tired and recycled Israeli propaganda points 😦 Andrew normally makes sensible points on this blog.
What is the big fuss with flying the Palestinian flag which is flown by UN and most countries around the world? How could Jewish people be offended by this? Is it a crime to show solidarity with the people of Palestine who have been killed in their thousands over the last 60 years and have been made refugees in their own homeland? Its the least civilised nations should do in showing empathy and solidarity with a desperate destitute people in their rightful liberation struggle against the illigal Zionist occupation.
I will never, ever understand how people with a moral concious and children (or without children, for that matter) can support what Israel is doing in Gaza.
If my words appear strong to all the Zionist sympathisers and trolls on this blog…tough !! Get used to it because the world is waking up to Zionist war crimes and the TH (globally conscious) people will no longer be indifferent to the suffering of the Palestinian people!!
The Israeli flag is also flown from the UN.
Why are you so obsessed with the word Zionist?
Do you believe the state of Israel should exist?
Dear Ajay, so when I said Israelis recent actions had been criminally negligent I am recycling Israeli propaganda? I actually think that Israel is putting its own long term security at risk through its current actions.
But I believe that the tactics of Hamas are also indefensible. If we are going to support the Palestinians then we should be supporting the government of Mahmoud Abbas and not Hamas. That was not made clear last night. Gaza has not been occupied by Israel since 2005.
You have not answered my main question, why the focus on Palestine and Gaza and the apparent silence on other parts of the Middle East. In Syria we already have 2.9 million refugees and 170,000 + dead versus 1.8 million people living in Gaza and 1,400 people dead. We could have done something about Syria but did Lutfur ask the British government to intervene? Why not?
Why are we not campaigning against ISIS crucifying Shia soldiers they capture or Assad dropping barrel bombs indiscriminately from a great height or Boko Harem using a ten year old girl as a suicide bomber in Nigeria. These are all war crimes which have killed more people then Israel has.
Everyone should have a place in which they can live in peace in safety and not in poverty or squaller or thirst or hunger or fear.
The name of the place is less important than the good welfare of the people.
Sadly that is not the status quo throughout the world.where injustices, violence, death, bigotry and corruption prevail.
Curious Cat.
=> Andrew
That was not made clear last night. Gaza has not been occupied by Israel since 2005.
When one guards the walls of a prison containing 1,800,000 people, and impose a siege upon them, is that not a de facto “occupation” ? What is the real difference ?
How can the destroyed homes, schools, hospitals, water treatment and pumping stations, and electricity generating stations and infrastructure be rebuilt when Israel imposes a blockade on the inflow into Gaza of building materials ?
Treating people with dignity and respect appears to be lacking. Does being a Palestinian justify labelling by Israel as an Untermensch ? (there are good and nice Jews in Israel amid the loonies).
What say has a Palestinian child in whether or not Hamas rules Gaza ? Why should that child and its family be punished by Israel because Hamas seized power in Gaza ??????
Curious Cat.
You couldn’t make it up! to answer your questions;
1. They were done as emergency motions and were allowed by the Speaker and Monitoring Officer.
2. £814 pounds was the approximate cost of councillors time last night talking just about Gaza, that would not include officers time etc. The average cost of a councillor is £24 an hour! because many of them get special SRA allowances. Ordinary councillors like me cost £15 an hour (assuming we work 15 hours a week for 48 weeks of the year). I did not feel that last night we were good value for money.
=> Andrew,
Costing the meeting in terms of councillors’ allowances is a false and therefore misleading analogy.
1. No ordinary councillor genuinely works 15 hours every week for 48 weeks a year for the benefit of the community. If they do anything at all, and some are less active than others, then the work is usually for personal gain or political purposes.
2. The councillors’ dosh is not paid-out per meeting. It is paid-out regardless of whether the elected councillor lives in England or abroad. It is paid-out even if the councillors never attended that meeting.
3. I suggest to you that your assertion “£814 pounds was the approximate cost of councillors time last night talking just about Gaza” is untrue for the reasons I have stated above.
4. Judging whether or not individual councillors are, in your own words, “good value for money” is not about the choice of topics or about the quality of debate but about the achievements quantified in terms of positive action benefiting the public.
5. I believe there should be less elected councillors, effectively one per smaller ward, and compelled to work at least half a week for which they are paid public cash. Naturally there has to be a reduction in council staff to compensate for the time and money required to pay a councillor to effectively do work that includes work that ought to be done by council staff.
Curious Cat
Curious Cat.
The 15 hours a week is the suggested number of hours from the council. I cannot remember where I saw it but it is an official number. Do all councillors do those hours, no I doubt it very much but some like Peter Golds and former Cllr Gloria Thienel work more then those hours. I have been doing slightly more then 15 hours a week since elected, I have had seven meetings since Monday including taking a day off work to go see TFL, OHG and the officer in charge of learning and achievement. Two of those meetings are related to my NHS work which is complementary to my role as a councillor. There is a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes that you might not be aware of.
How do you measure value for money? Sometimes the positive action is just sitting in surgery listening to somebody’s story, sometimes it is posting on this blog my observations of what happened last night, sometimes it is telling teenagers not to ride their motorbikes at speed on the pavement or telling the council that the pedestrian crossing lights on Byng street are broken. Do they all result in positive action, I do not know but I think they are what I should be doing as a councillor.
Hi Andrew,
I’ve done it too. I spent an average or 20 to 30 hours every week on surgery, visiting residents, typing-up in detail the casework, attending meetings with officers and attending meetings as a councillor.
Some of the problems are matters the staff are paid to do, but don’t. In theory councillors should be making informed decisions but in reality the staff run the show following, usually loosely, the agenda determined by one or two top elected bosses.
One does not have to be a councillor to do casework – which is listening, documenting and then giving the problem to the local authority for resolution. Nor does one have to be a councillor to kick the lazy/incompetent/indifferent/useless local authority up the arse for failing the public again and again.
Everything to do with English local government clearly needs a massive overhaul including the biggest public disgrace imaginable – staff retiring because of a growing public scandal, being given in secret (in Part 2 or done by staff using delegated authority) massive amounts of public dosh for failing the public and then popping-up again in another local authority doing the same work at the same high salary and perks.
Lots of success with your high ideals – shame they are not universally shared by the less able councillors.
Curious Cat.
The best use of £814 if it was spent highlighting the Israeli onslaught on innocent civilians in Gaza.
Please ask the Speaker and Monitoring Officer to cite the legal authority for the discussion of this topic in the Council Chamber – and in what ways the discussion did not contravene various aspects of the Council’s Constitution.
At a council meeting earlier this year Mr Ali was in the public gallery handing out flyers advocating a boycott of the Sainsbury’s supermarket chain, which he linked somehow to the Israel-Palestine situation, I don’t remember the exact connection. I have no problem with this because I am a strong advocate of free speech, but I wonder if I would be allowed to hand out political tracts of my choosing on council property.
Hasbarist trolls have made it on to your blog Ted. Well done.
As for Lutfur. Well done for having a spine and standing up for aggression from the Apartheid State of Israel.
This isn’t about religion or race it is about humanity.
Just as a disclaimer I am against Hamas and their firing of rockets too, it is not the way to go about it but when a man comes into your house and kills your child, I would understand why the father would want to have some form of retribution and before you ZioNazis get your knickers in a twist I am not condoning violence or am not inciting violence of any sort.
Note to Mossad: please do not take me out like an Iranian Nuclear Scientist.
Note to Mi5: I am not planning on going to Syria anytime soon.
Note to Met Police: I am not Brazilian.
Peace in the Middle East.
Peace everywhere and respect for everyone.
Amen.
I will drink to that.
Oh dear Ted you sound like an Israeli PR man. The state of Israel does exist and has done for 70 years since the jewish diaspora invaded Palestine, most people in the todays modern world can live with the original concept of a jewish homeland in a land to be shared with Palastinians, even arabs.
The heart of the problem is the Israeli goverment’s lebensraum policies and its brutal trearment of Palestinian arabs
Thanks Frank. I know my history on this, believe me.
Frank. The Jewish diaspora had even returning to the levant since the late 19th Century so more like 130years. Those there were targeted by racists including the local leader – Grand Mufti Husseini – who in 1940-5 plotted with Hitler to divide the Middle East between them and “share” the extermination of the Jews; Hitler in Europe, Husseini in the Middle East. The Arabs and their holy book have repeatedly advocated a literal genocide of the Jews and anyone supporting the “destruction” of the state of Israel is supporting a policy of genocide.
Hamas is a murderous, fascist mafia holding the Arabs of Gaza hostage.
That is too extreme Maurice.
Hamas, in political respects, are not fundamentally different from many (not all) politicians around the world. Hamas leaders want power. They have egos and they have some sort of agenda, which like other politicians, may not always be sensible or sustainable. They have extremists elements as well as more moderate people.
For comparison of imperfect politicians look at the UK’s Labour Party’s mess of the UK’s finances. If Labour can get things politically wrong, so too can Hamas. Even Labour has loonies, so too do the Tories. Hamas’ loonies are much more extreme because of the environment in which they live – Gaza is not a holiday camp even though its has sunny sandy beeches.
Politicians get things wrong. They are often ordinary people with imperfect reasoning.
Look at the 6 counties of Ulster (9 in total) under British control. Remember the terrorists attacks, murders, bombings, miscarriage of British justice, SAS murders done in Gibraltar (and the labelling of a woman witness as a prostitute who subsequently received large damages at the High Court), Bloody Sunday and the British bombing in Dublin.
Thank God its all over now. Why is it over ? Because both parties talked to each other. It was not a quick process but long and tiring but they succeeded.
I want that sort of success for Palestine including the Gaza.
There is no fundamental reason why people of the same genetic stock (Jews and Arabs) can not live in peace together. It just takes an awful lot of courage to talk to one’s hated enemies. Its not easy and initially not nice at all. But it can be done, if there is a genuine desire on both sides for an improvement. In Northern Ireland, the hard-liners SF and DUP had to gain power first. In the so-called Middle-East, the hard-liners are already in power in Israel and in Gaza.
I would welcome a Palestinian-Israeli campaign for peace.
One side slagging-off the other side is counter-productive especially when LOTS of common sense and humanitarian concern are desperately needed. F*** the politicians’ over-inflated egos, lets have realistic pragmatism for a change.
When I look at the vast amounts of senseless destruction in Gaza, I almost cry. Add that to the over 1,000 deaths and over 10,000 causalities. One should recognise how fundamentally wrong the status quo is. Perhaps the men politicians on both sides should resign and let the women on both sides sort out the men’s mess? The woman could not do any worse that the men.
Curious Cat.
Curious – thanks for your measured and insightful comments. However I don’t think it is genetics which prevent Jews and Arabs from living side by side (although one million Israeli Arabs do live within Israel peacefully, but that’s another issue)… the issue is ideology and dogma. It is ideas not flesh which are dividing these people and so long as people believe in the things they do (on both sides) this conflict of ideological dogma will continue between ignorant men not just in Israel but elsewhere – such as the vicious wars claiming FAR more lives between Sunni moslems and Shia/Alawite and Christian communities in Iraq and Syria and the repression and violence in Bahrain, Pakistan and the like.
So the flag is now back up, to be honest from what I’ve heard so far, it should have stayed down. Not because I’m against it, but its just reigniting this whole thing all over again.
I’m very surprised it’s back up, if that’s true. Given that the police visited the Town Hall this morning, and the impression was given that it was to remove it, I wonder whether there will be a repeat visit tomorrow morning?
The flag should be up and remain hoisted. We stand with Palestine.
Which conflict’s flag should appear next week?
There is more than a single simultaneous conflict in this world killing innocent civilians and devastating survivors’ lives.
Equal treatment for all worthy causes ?
Curious Cat
Anyone know who owns Mulberry Place?
@Grave Maurice – Criterion Captial (east-inda-dock.co.uk) owns it.
Now Rahman has really annoyed me.
He’s just said “the people of Tower Hamlets want the flag to be up” on the BBC London News.
I have news for Mayor Rahman – there’s in excess of 180k electors in this borough and 145k did NOT vote for him.
He has absolutely no business standing up in front of the Town Hall saying what I and others think when he’s never spoken to most of us and doesn’t have a clue what the vast majority of the electorate think on this issue.
I can only assume the man is now showing signs of raging megalomania!
=> Couldn’t
Please do be so naive. Lying is something the vast majority of politicians excel at.
CC.
Yes, the people of TH do want the flag to be up, hoisted and flying high above our town hall. Not just people who voted for Lutfur. It includes people who did not vote for him too. There are those commenting on this blog who do not like Lutfur, they are standing with Palestine.
Now, deal with it.
I am one of those electorate that did not vote for Lutfur, and I do not want the Palestinian flag flown, thank you very much. The only sentiment I would like from my borough is one of peace. Can you pass that on to Mr Rahman please
What utter rubbish – again.
As it happens I think:
* Palestine ought to have its own state – just as Israel should i.e. the Oslo Peace Accord should be implemented
* What BOTH Hamas, as the government of Palestine, and the government of Israel are doing is atrocious and a real outrage.
* The killing of ANY civilians is appalling. All lives are precious – whether they are Israeli teenagers or children in schools in Gaza.
However I stand with the UN on this matter – not Palestine nor Israel.
I want a peace deal but I won’t align myself with either government. Taking sides only ramps up conflict – it doesn’t resolve it.
In wanting to help support those who are suffering I give to reputable and wholly non-political charities which are working in the area such as save the Children http://blogs.savethechildren.org.uk/2014/07/gaza-international-community-has-to-stop-this-war-on-children/
The problem I and many others have with the flag is that Gaza has been governed by Hamas since 2007. To fly its flag suggests LBTH aligns itself with a group which has been designated as a terrorist organisation by the governments of the UK, USA, Canada, the EU, Jordan, Egypt and Japan – as well as Israel.
A few Councillors in the Town Hall do not comprise the people of Tower Hamlets. International politics is not what local government is about – and they were NEVER elected to speak on our behalf on this topic.
Bottom line, Mayor Rahman and those who voted for the flag to be raised have absolutely no mandate whatsoever for this action.
None of them should mix up getting elected as Councillors in Tower Hamlets with thinking they can influence the problems of the Middle East.
To think they can is just plain naive gesture politics aka known as “flagwaving”.
If the borough wanted to avoid conflict, promote social cohesion, support ALL the innocent civilians and children caught up in this conflict and align itself with a peaceful outcome it should fly the flag of the UN – or the flags of both countries with a banner saying “we want peace”. That is unequivocal and non-aligned.
=> You couldn’t make it up!
I agree with most of what you have written but disagree with:-
The Palestinian flag is not Hamas’ flag. It is the flag of ALL the Palestinian people even those who live in the occupied West Bank and those who do not support Hamas.
The same defective logic is replicated in statements by others that the English National Front, the British National Party and the English Defence League “own” the English flag or “own” the United Kingdom flag. They don’t. The flags are “owned” by the people possessing that nationality.
Curious Cat.
If “Palestine” had its own state…what then? Do you think the war would stop? If you do you either incredibly naive (which I think not) or you are suspending disbelief. The Arabs would not stop fighting Jews until any residual Jewish state had been expunged and the Israelis either forced to “submit”, succumb to renewed exile or be murdered (as Hamas likes to say, “be driven into the sea”).
The Hamas Charter declares in its preamble that, “our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious”. Note that this is not a struggle against Zionism or Israel it is a racial struggle against Jews. How can a Jewish state negotiate peace with an organisation committed to their complete destruction? Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar has stated that any talk of a two-state solution based on the 1967 lines would be “just a phase” until Hamas has a chance to “regain the land…even if we [Hamas] have to do so inch by inch.” Other Hamas leaders, including Ismail Haniyah and Khaled Meshaal have also stated, repeatedly, that “Palestine – from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, from its north to its south – is our land, our right, and our homeland. There will be no relinquishing or forsaking even an inch or small part of it,”
So how can Israel achieve peace if the people it is talking to want every Jew exiled or dead and openly tell their supporters that any deal achieved with Israel would be “just a phase” before war continued with the aim of complete annihilation.
The sorry fact is that if a two state solution was implemented today and Palestine became independent up to the ‘green line’ border and Israel was disarmed there would still be no peace. There would be no peace because the Arabs would instantly demand the destruction of any Jewish state no matter how small and immediately attack, just like they did in 1948.
It’s a sorry situation it really is but so long as the;law of the jungle prevails in Palestinian politics and those mightiest with the sword advance ahead of those armed with a pen then there will never be peace.
Hamas does not want peace. Hamas wants perpetual war. And when Tower Hamlets declares it open support for Hamas (which it does by flying that flag) it is sending a very worrying message.
=> Maurice
So now you are a spokesman for Hamas ? or an emotionally person who thinks killings children is acceptable providing those children are not Jewish ?
What a shame you did not manage to pop into SPEC SAVERS before wrongly stating the Palestinian flag is the same as Hamas’ flag.
What a surprise you omitted the organised Jewish extremists living in Israel. Are they really so invisible to those with impaired vision ?
I am certain the vast majority of Palestinian people want to live in peace with their Israeli neighbours and would not think about eradicating the nice, friendly and helpful Jews living next door who are the best neighbours anyone could hope for.
Peace to all, especially to you Maurice.
Making love is a lot more enjoyable than making war. It creates life not destroy life.
Curious Cat.
But CC… the war is between Israel and Hamas. Those are the sides in this conflict. The people of Israel and the people of Gaza are collateral. Some of the people of Israel are in the IDF and some of the people of Gaza fight for Hamas. But the two sides are Hamas (A mainly Muslim Palestinian faction) and Israel (a mainly Jewish faction)… so if the town hall flies the flag of Palestine and not the flag of Israel it is implicitly taking sides… and the side fighting Israel is not the Palestinian people – as I am sure you would readily admit – but Hamas, a terrorist neo-fascist organisation. So to fly the flag of Palestine is supporting the side fighting Israel vis à vis supporting Hamas. Hence the controversy. Quad erat demonstrandum.
=> Maurice,
I did post on this now long web page, at July 31, 2014 at 2:07 pm
Never mind removing the Palestine flag – Add the Israeli flag and the words “We Want Peace” and, hopefully, many would support the idea.
and at August 2, 2014 at 1:52 pm
Which conflict’s flag should appear next week?
There is more than a single simultaneous conflict in this world killing innocent civilians and devastating survivors’ lives.
Equal treatment for all worthy causes ?
I really do support the idea of peace replacing dogma, even in TH. Perhaps TH can become a national leader in supporting peace-keeping efforts through the world? Well, its not much good at its official tasks.
I nominate as the first TH representative to conflict zones abroad, His Worship the Mayor. Seconded anyone ? Wonder if His Worship would accept the challenge ?
Curious Cat.
For those who are interested or curious to explore the history of historic Palestine and its subsequent invasion which led creation that is the State of Israel, please do watch. Maybe the picture will be more clearer to understand.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2013/05/20135612348774619.html
Shahed Ali, thank you very much indeed. I will watch it in my free time. Thanks for your guest post. Courageous men like you need to stand up and expose the injustice and oppression of the murderous state of Israel when the whole world is ‘disgraced’ by its actions.
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg states: “to see this festering humanitarian crisis get worse. It incubates the next generation of violent extremists who want to do harm to Israel.”
Exactly my point!
Clegg is wrong and short-sighted.
Israel’s actions will inevitably create those who want to kill Jews regardless of whether or not the Jews they kill are good or bad, involved or not involved or want peace or who want war.
Indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians is senseless stupidity.
The biggest risk to Israel is a world wide regard for Israelis and Jews (who may be other countries’ nationals) as evil people who should be hated and despised.
Israel’s slaughter of innocent Palestinians is the biggest public relations disaster in the entire world.
Already there are extremists right-wing groups in Israel who rejoice that all the children in Gaza are dead (fact: all the children are not dead).
Peace never seems to make so many problems as war. By the way how much will the UK government pay to rebuild the deliberate destruction cased by Israel ?
Ted, you asked ‘do you belive Israel should exist’? Yes it should, but Israel should not exist over or at the expense of the Palestinian population / state. Ideally there should be one state that grants equal rights and accommodates both these people who both have historical roots and connection to the sacred land. If this is not possible then there should be two seperate homelands with clearly defined borders, fair access to natural resources, security guarantees and the return of refugees as was proposed at the Oslo summit. Hamas has reluctantly signed up to this proposal almost 10 years ago and even amended their constitution to recognise Israel. However it is Israel that refuses to agree to this peace proposal and insists on maintaining the status quo and gobbling up more land and tightening its brutal occupation of the Palestinian people with the full support of USA / UK and most of the ‘guilt driven’ European Countries.
My question to you Ted: should Palestine exist? If so, how ? If not, why not?
Zionists / Israeli supporters always claim that ‘certain countrys / groups’ wish to ‘wipe Israel of the map’. While this fear maybe genuine and real but we know given Israeli military strength / US backing (and their very own secret atomic arsenal) that this is very unlikely to happen as we will have nuclear Armageddon.
What we do know for sure and for the World to see clearly is that ‘Palestine’ no longer exists and has truly been wiped off the map in the space of 60 years. This is a fact …just take a look at this series of maps of the region:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dwindling+map+of+palestine&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#hl=en-gb&q=map+of+palestine&facrc=_&imgrc=vCngkPz-Vk73CM%253A%3Bundefined%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.juancole.com%252Fimages-ext%252F2010%252F03%252Fmap-story-of-palestinian-nationhood.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.juancole.com%252F2014%252F07%252Fpalestinian-thwarted-speaking.html%3B809%3B539
Well said. For the most part.
If accurate, the maps show an astonishing attempt to wipe-out the Arabs. Surely the Palestinians have more land than that shown in 2000 ?
Deeply worrying.
Curious Cat
An attem
Not that Al Jazeera TV may be a little biased? Shame on me for thinking such things!!!!
Will British Israelis who travel to join the IDF to kill Palestinians also be labelled radicalised terrorists, or is this term only applicable in demonising the muslim community?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/its-not-just-radicalised-islamists–what-about-foreign-fighters-who-flock-to-the-idf-9634260.html?fb_action_ids=4352222540192&fb_action_types=the-independent%3Astrongly_agree
Are you recognising ISIS as a state?
Interesting question.
The same logic applies to British nationals serving (or fighting if you prefer) in other countries military and para-military forces. And to mercenaries who hire themselves out for money to fight others which sometimes includes innocent civilians.
The explanation of the UK policy might be that IDF is a recognised and disciplined force under the control of a recognised (by the UN) state.
Before you and I were born, people from the British Isles (which as you know includes Ireland) travelled to Spain to fight in the Spanish Civil War against Franco who was supported by the Nazis. Special Branch never arrested them, or caused them to be arrested, on return to this country.
We should have intervened in Syria for humanitarian purposes. UN Security Council motions were vetoed by Russia because it wants to retain its large military base, and home to one of its fleets of ships, on Syria’s coast. We live in an imperfect world.
Curious Cat.
We did not intervene in Syria because the British Muslim community amongst others campaigned against intervention. The result 170,000 dead so far and no end in sight unlike Gaza where there are least attempts to find a ceasefire.
The UK did not intervene in Syria when an intervention at the beginning could have saved more than 100,000 lives, God only knows how many wounded and maimed people, millions of refugees, prevented destruction of infrastructure including homes and hospitals, and avoided the spawning of the extreme terrorists,
The UK did not intervene because the prime minister is a spin doctor – not a leader – and the UK wants to be pacifist’s Obama’s favourite poodle.
Perhaps the lack of oil was a contributing factor?
Curious Cat
Er, didn’t Cameron lose a Commons vote on taking action?
=> Andrew,
So British, but not Northern Ireland, nor Isle of Mann nor Channel Islands Moslems dictate British foreign policy ?
Just Curious.
Curious Cat
Syria has oil, not huge amounts but a steady supply. I have been to the oilfields around Deir ez-Zor where my father used to run a business supplying the oil companies with engineering staff
I do not remember the specifics but my recollection is it was NOT a vote on intervention but a vote on preliminaries.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783
Curious Cat
The Muslim community across the whole of the UK was generally against intervention in Syria. Lutfur Rahman was Mayor at the time and I do not remember him or any other prominent Muslim group in East London campaigning for a ‘no fly zone’ for example which would have helped to reduce civilian casualties. Had we intervened at least in a minimal way a lot more Syrian civilians would be alive today.
Hi Ted,
Thank you for the link.
The debate occurred one day earlier than the date of the BBC report, meaning on Thursday, 29 August 2013.
Here is the actual motion. I would have worded it better but then I’m neither a spin doctor nor a USA poodle (aspirant or actual). 🙂
Source: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id=2013-08-29c.1425.5
Note: “United Nations process must be followed as far as possible”
which means we will probably do what the Yanks want, as usual, and ignore the UN.
Note: “very effort should be made to secure a Security Council Resolution backing military action before any such action is taken”
which means if there is no Security Council resolution, we will start a war or military intervention anyway.
The BBC’s report states, inter alia:-
* MPs have rejected possible UK military action against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s government to deter the use of chemical weapons.
Note “possible” not actual.
* David Cameron said he would respect the defeat of a government motion by 285-272, ruling out joining US-led strikes.
Note “ruling out joining US-led strikes”.
After Blair’s distortions to the House of Commons and the USA’s deserved reputation for being macho “gung ho” – shoot or bomb first and ask questions later if ever (Thanks Edward Snowden) – no one in their right mind would have voted for giving Cameron a blank cheque. Unless Cameron is stupid, and I think he is not that dim, he must have known his feeble attempt to be a loyal USA poodle would fail. The tone of the motion is dismal, despondent and dreary.
The motion was clearly a preliminary attempt to take this country to war without UN authorisation and without a clearly expressed definitive agenda. Too ambiguous to be serious. Cameron must have known that in advance.
Cameron knew he could never emulate Tony Blair’s success in joining the USA’s oil war in Iraq. His speech lacked passion, compassion, commitment and concern. Only a bigoted politician (‘follow my leader’ even over the edge of a cliff) or a fool would have voted for it.
I favoured military intervention after giving the Commons a clearly defined objective, not the detailed plans that would benefit the Syrian government, but sufficient details to enable the MPs to make a properly informed judgment for a humanitarian intervention.
Curious Cat.
=> Andrew,
FOI to LBTH
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/lbth_the_mayor_gaza_and_palestin/
1. Kindly provide a list of all the occasions Mr Rahman, Mayor of TH, has made an official comment (oral or written), or undertaken an official action, to show his or the local authority’s or the public in general’s concerns about the dreadful situation in Palestine and/or in Gaza.
2. Kindly provide a list of all the occasions Mr Rahman, Mayor of TH, has made an official comment (oral or written), or undertaken an official action, to show his or the local authority’s or the public in general’s concerns about the dreadful situation in Syria.
3. Kindly provide a list of all the occasions Mr Rahman, Mayor of TH, has made an official comment (oral or written), or undertaken an official action, to show his or the local authority’s or the public in general’s concerns about a dreadful situation anywhere else in the world outside the UK.
Curious Cat
Why not a council motion condemning the persecution and displacement of the ancient Christian communities in Syria and Iraq by the advancing Islamists?
Or would that not fit the desired narrative?
Mark Webber, with all due respect, the voters of TH rejected you and your party, UKIP and therefore, you are not able to put forward a motion that you desire.
I like the idea of your motion. Can I suggest that you work with THF, Labour or Tories to get this motion to be debated at one of the forthcoming council meetings? Please let us know how you get on.
Flying that flag has put out a welcome matt to Islamists and jihadists, come and live here, we are on your side.
If I was Jewish I’d be thinking of moving elsewhere because they will feel unsafe.
The conflict between Israel and Palestine is going to continue, perhaps forever, there doesn’t appear to be any kind of solution and so innocents will continue to suffer, especially children.
Oh and to the poster that said it’s an open invitation to EDL, there are NO plans for EDL to come to Tower Hamlets.
=>Arthur,
You wrote
That is entirely untrue. You have no evidence to support your opinion.
It was probably a political attempt by the mayor to use the Gaza tragedy to give himself some beneficial publicity after loosing his High Court challenge about the recent local elections.
Curious Cat.
Arthur, you might think that but it doesn’t make the massacre of innocents ok.
CC, no I don’t, it’s just my opinion, as are most of the posts here.
Vakas, Nothing makes the killing of innocents ok, my heart goes out to all the innocent people around the world who get killed for nothing.
Meanwhile closer to home, The East London Advertiser reports about the Council Meeting as follows
http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/politics/palestinian_flag_ripped_down_from_tower_hamlets_town_hall_1_3708401
“A heated debate was followed by criticism that councillors were focussing on Gaza and not tacking local issues such as the crisis facing 22 GP surgeries in east London in danger of being closed through lack of funds.
GPs had turned up for an NHS debate which had to be shelved because last night’s council meeting ran out of time.”
So – I take it this means the Councillors in our borough think a debate about something which is not within their remit is much more important than a proper agenda item and a matter which could potentially affect every single resident of Tower Hamlets – namely the funding changes proposed re GP surgeries which could see a number of them close.
So did all the Councillors who participated in the Debate write to every one of the GPs who attended to apologise for wasting their time?
No point in having an Agenda (which means diary in Dutch) if the official business of the council is ignored. Better to add the extra “business” to the end of the published meeting.
Still, we all know TH is “different”.
Curious Cat.
At the same meeting the legitimate concerns of residents of Spitalfields about the abject failure of the council’s ‘saturation zone’ policy around Brick Lane were raised in a question by the Spitalfields Community Group. There was absolutely no effort to even consider the issue effecting thousands of Tower Hamlets citizens with Shahed Ali deciding to blame the Rich Mix Cinema (?!?!) for drunkenness in the area…simply because the Rich Mix is part owned/controlled by Michael Keith and other Labour grandees. It was political point scoring, the abdication of responsibility and put the people of Tower Hamlets… Last.
Um, Michael Keith doesn’t part own it.
What is the deal with Rich Mix then… I thought it had something to do with Denise Jones and Michael Keith. If not, why is THF so set against it?
Michael Keith was a member of the inexperienced Rich Mix board along with Oona King and Denise Jones who dreamed up the idea. A lot of public money went to waste on it.
Are you sure politburo THLP don’t still have a stake in it? It might explain the animosity.
Rich Mix is an excellent venue and a real resource for local people. I go there regularly and have never seen drunkenness.
Debunking Israel’s 11 Main Myths About Gaza, Hamas and War Crimes
(http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html)
You’ve got to hand it to Israeli spinners like Mark Regev. They are masters of PR. In fact, as the Independent’s Patrick Cockburn revealed over the weekend, “the playbook they are using is a professional, well-researched and confidential study on how to influence the media and public opinion in America and Europe”.
Let’s be clear: I’m no fan of Hamas, a brutal and anti-Semitic group which has been accused by Amnesty International and other NGOs of human rights abuses against the people of Gaza and of war crimes against the people of Israel. Firing rockets into civilian areas isn’t justified under international law, even if it is framed as part of a (legitimate) struggle against foreign military occupation.
Having said that, however, in recent days I’ve been debating supporters of Israel’s latest assault on Gaza on radio and on Twitter and I’ve been astonished not just by the sheer number of fact-free claims made by those supporters, but also by their confidence, slickness and sheer message discipline. According to the pro-Israel, pro-IDF crowd, Hamas is to blame for everything.
This, of course, is utter nonsense. To quote the late US senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan: “You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”
So, in a Moynihanian spirit, here are fact-filled, evidence-based rebuttals to the 11 main myths, half-truths and self-serving ‘talking points’ that are repeatedly pushed by various Israeli spokespersons, both on the airwaves and on social media:
1) The Gaza Strip isn’t occupied by Israel
Boston Globe: “Israeli-imposed buffer zones.. now absorb nearly 14 percent of Gaza’s total land and at least 48 percent of total arable land. Similarly, the sea buffer zone covers 85 percent of the maritime area promised to Palestinians in the Oslo Accords, reducing 20 nautical miles to three.” Human Rights Watch: “Israel also continues to control the population registry for residents of the Gaza Strip, years after it withdrew its ground forces and settlements there.” B’Tselem, 2013: “Israel continues to maintain exclusive control of Gaza’s airspace and the territorial waters, just as it has since it occupied the Gaza Strip in 1967.”
2) Israel wants a ceasefire but Hamas doesn’t
Al Jazeera: “Meshaal said Hamas wants the ‘aggression to stop tomorrow, today, or even this minute. But [Israel must] lift the blockade with guarantees and not as a promise for future negotiations’. He added ‘we will not shut the door in the face of any humanitarian ceasefire backed by a real aid programme’.” Jerusalem Post: “One day after an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire accepted by Israel, but rejected by Hamas, fell through, the terrorist organization proposed a 10-year end to hostilities in return for its conditions being met by Israel, Channel 2 reported Wednesday.. Hamas’s conditions were the release of re-arrested Palestinian prisoners who were let go in the Schalit deal, the opening of Gaza-Israel border crossings in order to allow citizens and goods to pass through, and international supervision of the Gazan seaport in place of the current Israeli blockade.” BBC: “Israel’s security cabinet has rejected a week-long Gaza ceasefire proposal put forward by US Secretary of State John Kerry ‘as it stands’.”
3) Israel, unlike Hamas, doesn’t deliberately target civilians
The Guardian: “It was there that the second [Israeli] shell hit the beach, those firing apparently adjusting their fire to target the fleeing survivors. As it exploded, journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: ‘They are only children.'” UN high commissioner for human rights Navi Pillay: “A number of incidents, along with the high number of civilian deaths, belies the [Israeli] claim that all necessary precautions are being taken to protect civilian lives.” United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, 2009: “The tactics used by the Israeli armed forces in the Gaza offensive are consistent with previous practices, most recently during the Lebanon war in 2006. A concept known as the Dahiya doctrine emerged then, involving the application of disproportionate force and the causing of great damage and destruction to civilian property and infrastructure, and suffering to civilian populations. The Mission concludes from a review of the facts on the ground that it.. appears to have been precisely what was put into practice.”
4) Only Hamas is guilty of war crimes, not Israel
Human Rights Watch: “Israeli forces may also have knowingly or recklessly attacked people who were clearly civilians, such as young boys, and civilian structures, including a hospital – laws-of-war violations that are indicative of war crimes.” Amnesty International: “Deliberately attacking a civilian home is a war crime, and the overwhelming scale of destruction of civilian homes, in some cases with entire families inside them, points to a distressing pattern of repeated violations of the laws of war.”
5) Hamas use the civilians of Gaza as ‘human shields’
Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor: “I saw no evidence during my week in Gaza of Israel’s accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields.” The Guardian: “In the past week, the Guardian has seen large numbers of people fleeing different neighbourhoods.. and no evidence that Hamas had compelled them to stay.” The Independent: “Some Gazans have admitted that they were afraid of criticizing Hamas, but none have said they had been forced by the organisation to stay in places of danger and become unwilling human-shields.” Reuters, 2013: “A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields.”
6) This current Gaza conflict began with Hamas rocket fire on 30 June 2014
Times of Israel: “Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.. The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.. Hamas hasn’t fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012.” The Nation: “During ten days of Operation Brother’s Keeper in the West Bank [before the start of the Gaza conflict], Israel arrested approximately 800 Palestinians without charge or trial, killed nine civilians and raided nearly 1,300 residential, commercial and public buildings. Its military operation targeted Hamas members released during the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange in 2011.”
7) Hamas has never stopped firing rockets into Israel
Jewish Daily Forward: “Hamas hadn’t fired a single rocket since [2012 Gaza conflict], and had largely suppressed fire by smaller jihadi groups. Rocket firings, averaging 240 per month in 2007, dropped to five per month in 2013.” International Crisis Group: “Fewer rockets were fired from Gaza in 2013 than in any year since 2001, and nearly all those that were fired between the November 2012 ceasefire and the current crisis were launched by groups other than Hamas; the Israeli security establishment testified to the aggressive anti-rocket efforts made by the new police force Hamas established specifically for that purpose.. As Israel (and Egypt) rolled back the 2012 understandings – some of which were implemented spottily at best – so too did Hamas roll back its anti rocket efforts.”
8) Hamas provoked Israel by kidnapping and killing three Israeli teenagers
Jewish Daily Forward: “The [Israeli] government had known almost from the beginning that the boys were dead. It maintained the fiction that it hoped to find them alive as a pretext to dismantle Hamas’ West Bank operations.. Nor was that the only fib. It was clear from the beginning that the kidnappers weren’t acting on orders from Hamas leadership in Gaza or Damascus. Hamas’ Hebron branch — more a crime family than a clandestine organization — had a history of acting without the leaders’ knowledge, sometimes against their interests.” BBC correspondent Jon Donnison: “Israeli police MickeyRosenfeld tells me men who killed 3 Israeli teens def lone cell, hamas affiliated but not operating under leadership.. Seems to contradict the line from Netanyahu government.”
9) Hamas rule, not Israel’s blockade, is to blame for the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip
US State Department cable: “Israeli officials have confirmed to Embassy officials on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy functioning at the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis.. Israeli officials have confirmed.. on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge.” The Guardian: “The Israeli military made precise calculations of Gaza’s daily calorie needs to avoid malnutrition during a blockade imposed on the Palestinian territory between 2007 and mid-2010, according to files the defence ministry released on Wednesday under a court order.. The Israeli advocacy group Gisha.. waged a long court battle to release the document. Its members say Israel calculated the calorie needs for Gaza’s population so as to restrict the quantity of food it allowed in.”
10) The Israeli government, unlike Hamas, wants a two-state solution
Times of Israel: “[Netanyahu] made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank.. Amid the current conflict, he elaborated, ‘I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.'”
11) All serious analysts agree it was Hamas, and not Israel, that started this current conflict
Nathan Thrall, senior Mid East analyst at the International Crisis Group, writing in the New York Times: “The current escalation in Gaza is a direct result of the choice by Israel and the West to obstruct the implementation of the April 2014 Palestinian reconciliation agreement.” Henry Siegman, former national director, American Jewish Congress, writing for Politico: “Israel’s assault on Gaza.. was not triggered by Hamas’ rockets directed at Israel but by Israel’s determination to bring down the Palestinian unity government that was formed in early June, even though that government was committed to honoring all of the conditions imposed by the international community for recognition of its legitimacy.”
Akkas,
I mostly agree with what you write but would add the following comments;
1. Egypt is also responsible for the blockade of Gaza, what has been shocking about this crisis is how little support the Gazans are getting from Arab nations, see New York Times article ‘Arab Leaders, Viewing Hamas as Worse Than Israel, Stay Silent’
2. The boys on the beach were killed by shellfire from a ship offshore, the ship would not have heard journalists shouting, it was too far away. I do not think the Israeli Defence Forces have a policy for deliberately targeting civilians, they know the PR impact of killing civilians and they are not that stupid. However Israel has a very low threshold for taking military casualties and if they have a choice between risking Israeli soldiers lives and risking Palestinian lives the choice for them would be easy. They would rather accidentally kill civilians then risk military casualties. With a small population and a conscript based force Israel is more sensitive to losing soldiers then lets say the USA and UK. I also suspect that some Israeli soldiers are not bothered either way and as we have seen in Iraq and Afghanistan it is easy to make mistakes in war.
3. Hamas military strategy is almost designed to cause collateral Palestinian civilian casualties. They launch rockets from densely populated areas; they have been caught 3 times by the UN storing rockets in UN schools. They then build attack tunnels into Israel whose starting points are in residential areas for ease of concealment. They also know it is easier for them to kill Israelis in urban areas then in the open fields so they need to draw in Israeli ground troops into residential areas where they can use mines and concealment to get in close to nullify Israels military superiority. They will never admit it but Hamas knows that civilian casualties are also very useful for their political message, it help to explain why they never built bomb shelters for civilians.
4. I do not think the Israelis would have been sure the 3 boys were dead on the 12th June when they first disappeared, their bodies were only found on the 30th, they knew that Israeli hostages are more valuable alive then dead i.e. one junior Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit was exchanged for 1,027 Palestinians, imagine what 3 teenage boys could have been exchanged for.
5. One of the reasons for the blockade is to ensure that Hamas does not import more dangerous weapons that might be more of a threat. In 2005 the people of Gaza had an opportunity to write a new chapter but when Hamas seized full control after a week long battle with Fatah (with 118 Palestinian dead) the blockade by Israel and Egypt became more severe.
6. Many more Palestinian civilians, 2,275 in total have died in Syria (in refugee camps) then have died in Gaza but why are we not talking about them as well?
=> Andrew,
I think the realistic answer to your question
6. Many more Palestinian civilians, 2,275 in total have died in Syria (in refugee camps) then have died in Gaza but why are we not talking about them as well?
is ordinary people are unable to cope with the scale of the atrocities.
Most of us are ‘normal’ people. Some struggle to exist, perhaps overloaded with the continuing burdens and distractions of modern life,
One atrocity is bad enough but when events add, non-stop, to the vast pile of existing inhuman activities, it becomes emotional overload for ordinary people. The distant observers are helpless. There is nothing practical they can do to stop or to alleviate the terrible disaster, the senseless destruction, the murderous killings, the unforgivable maiming and wounding of fellow Human Beings.
One atrocity is too dreadful. More than one is too many for ordinary people to fully comprehend. Often to protect themselves Human Beings tend to shut-out things they can not cope with. You will occasionally find that as a councillor; when residents delay taking action because they simply can not cope perhaps because they do not know what to do.
That is why it is so important to take immediate decisive action to “nip these things in the bud” before they develop into another unimaginable crisis.
People do care. We are writing on here about Gaza only because His Worships flag was flown. Wouldn’t we be doing the same if the flag was Syrian ?
I liked your long posting about other conflicts. You omitted the massive military slaughter of Tamils in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) by the allegedly peaceful Buddhists and the continuing injustices perpetuated on the Tamil civilian population by Sri Lankan authorities.
We live in an imperfect world.
Be nice to someone you dislike.
Curious Cat.
Great to read an alternative version of the minute by minute horror story.
Thank you for re-publishing it.
Curious Cat
My first reaction to the news of the flag was it’s just another fantasy WhatsApp message. But when I realised it was true I was agasped. I’ve seen everyone around me doing something to support the Palestinians; demonstrations, raising money, writing blogs/messages and even the kids creating loombands in Palestinian colours. But never in a million years would I have predicted this.
Although I can understand why someone with strong feelings would want to do this, I do however think it was a completely stupid move and goes to show how the Mayor is surrounded by clowns. I can just imagine how the Mayor would have been put on the spot where he dare not object out of fear of looking not to support the Palestinians.
This unfortunately is a problem amongst the Muslim mass now, where not attegding demonstrations, posting supporting messages, boycotting Israeli supportive business etc etc is seen as not supporting the Palestinians. But I didn’t think it’s the Council business to take a view on world issues.
Incidentally, I have a large poster on my window saying “FREE PALESTINE” and I do think the Zionists are religious fundamentalist who are no different to Hamas and yet one is viewed by the West as a terrorist organization and the other as accepted progressive movement. I strongly believe both are fundamentally wrong in their claim for exclusive rights. The world leaders should deride both equally and declare both unacceptable in the modern world.
Like Hamas, the current Zionist Israeli government should be declared as a terrorist movement, all assets frozen, leaders banned from traveling and all business with it stopped immediately. Yeah right!
Israeli military leaders are already reluctant to travel to the UK because of the risk of arrest, I have posted two examples below but there are others
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/sep/12/israelandthepalestinians.warcrimes
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/7822-former-israeli-navy-officer-detained-at-heathrow
An open letter to @MayorLutfur , mayor of Tower Hamlets https://www.sites.google.com/site/wwwrabbipetecouk/home/publications/an-open-letter-to-lutfur-rahman … by @rabbipete
I was first, on here, with the concept of displaying both flags and with the idea of displaying the flags of other conflicts too. However I do like the football supporters analogy. It is good.
I disagree with the concluding remarks
If you don’t do something, and choose to leave the Palestinian flag flying alone, then I shall be obliged to revise my opinion of you. You aren’t a silly man. You’re actually a rather dangerous man.
The does sound bullying and extreme – Do what I say or else. I would have written or .
His Worship is not really the type to roam the streets of London with an AK47, RPG or even an Igla. Talking sensibly is always better than bullying confrontation
Peace to all.
Curious Cat.
Rabbi Pete Tobias is a silly man. The likes of him advocating the flying of both Israel and Palestinian flags have lost the argument. So far, Preston, Dunbarton and TH councils have raised the Palestinian flag. As far as I am aware, nobody has raised the Israeli flag and nobody will. The Israeli flag represents war crimes as the UN described its most recent attack on civilians in a school as a “criminal act”. No council in this country will want to be associated with war crimes by flying the Israeli flag.
The latest, but not the last, shelling by Israelis on another UN school which told the Israelis 33 times, the last time only one hour before the Israelis attacked young Palestinian children the full geographic position of the UN school packed full of refugees, is certainly a serious war crime.
The Israelis should be prosecuted at the War Crimes Tribunal or International Criminal Court in Den Haag, Holland.
No words can adequately describe the horrendous daily atrocities on innocent civilians. All the attacks are funded by the USA. Well done Obama.
Curious Cat
I don’t find it bullying or extreme CC.
Continuing to fly the flag after numerous people and organisations have stated they find it offensive, divisive, provocative, etc is more than silly. The Mayor is an elected “community leader” and when you act with open eyes (to paraphrase TE Lawrence), then you are a dangerous man.
Scotland Yard seem to think flying the flag isn’t in the interests of community cohesion.
I wonder if Team Rahman have receipts for those flags. It has reached the point where I don’t believe the flag was “ripped down” and a replacement put up in its place. I think he had it taken down before the police came, pretended it was ripped down and then put it back up after the cops left. How many did he order? Is there a room at the Town Hall stocked with them?
He is actually capitalising on the Palestinian conflict for political means. “Vote or me. I am a friend of Palestine”. that is despicable.
=> JohnJee,
He is actually capitalising on the Palestinian conflict for political means. “Vote or me. I am a friend of Palestine”. that is despicable.
That is what is does seem like.
His Worship had a bad week with a rather stupid High Court challenge, which he inevitably lost, so it appears he jumped in desperation onto the nearest bandwagon – something politicians are renown for.
I have asked, via FOI, for examples of His Worship’s previous support for other humanitarian conflicts. I am not confident there will be any.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/lbth_the_mayor_gaza_and_palestin
Curious Cat.
You posted your FOI request as Conrad Catalan. It sounds like a pseudonym – much like your Curious Cat alter ago spending all day, all night on Ted’s blog posting long winded comments.
Have a walk down Cannon Street Road/ Many Palestinian flags on lamp posts and the DLR bridge. Guess someone has a stockpile somewhere!
So a new very senior press spin doctor has come into Tower Hamlets – do you know anything about that? Apparently his the one who backed the flag motion!
Ted
Please may we have a new topic for this developing story ?
Thanks.
CC.
Meanwhile, an American Jewish writer called Yochanan Gordon publishes an article on Times of Israel saying that Palestinian genocide is permissible.
Mr Yochanan launched a Twitter defence of his article amid widespread criticism of his views: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-strip-palestinian-genocide-permissible-writer-yochanan-gordon-launches-twitter-defence-1459397
I watched with interest the comments on this thread since they started. The taqiyya practised during these past few days would be laughable if id didn’t contain so much hatred towards any non-muslim, especially the more rational commenters.
The average Arab living in Israel wouldn’t recognize those “nice” hamas people described here. They live quite happily along side their Jewish neighbours; they have equal rights; they have voting rights and an Arab MP in the Knesset. Making direct equivalence between the terrorist run, Gaza and the democratic country of israel is foolish. How can you compare the cesspit that Gaza has become with the only civilized country in the middle east?
Are you not aware that after a leaflet drop warning the Palestinians to move and take cover, hamas says “Move and you are dead”. They also carry out these threats. Any person who doesn’t exactly follow hamas’ instructions ends up dead, a “victim” of those “criminal Israelis”. Most of the press of the world afraid to report the truth and would sooner film someone rushing about carrying children, whether they are injured or not. The bombed hospital mentioned in the news, had a hamas command and control unit operating from the basement. The “UN Schools” are not connected to the UN, they are run by 100% hamas operatives as arms dumps and firing points. If they want more pictures of injured women and children, they wait until the playground is full and then fire rockets from them, in the full and certain knowledge that the automatic response from the Israelis will produce hamas’ desired results. On the news the UN described them as “Schools”, the hamas staff put the fake UN badges on the doors. Don’t give me that taqiyya about hamas not doing it. The other week more women and children (and terrorists too) were killed when the weapon they were preparing blew up in the playground. hamas, of course blamed the Israelis but hamas spends so much of its time lying that only die hard muslims believe them any more. Of course.
Back to the comments and those picky people who say it’s not the flag of hamas, all I can say is that it is the flag of the terrorist group running the Gaza Strip and anyone flying it is a supporter of terrorists. They might also consider going to live in Gaza and find out what it’s like to live under the terrorist yoke in fear of being put up against a wall for making even a mild observation against hamas.
Curious Cat, your credibility is a little tarnished. I thought you were a great foil to the BS coming from TH council but you have flip-flopped so many times, I can no longer tell whether you are on the sane, clear sighted, moderate side or the insane ranting side which has a religious agenda and dreams of a UK Caliphate.
To those who think that hundreds of tunnels dug by children into Israel are not a security threat and should be not destroyed, try joining the real world sometime or maybe you should send your children to assist hamas in digging more tunnels. Many children died like this but if they don’t die as human shields or wearing exploding vests what use are they to hamas propagandists or their excusers, of which many comment here.
=> News
Whatever I think of His Worship can not detract one iota from the unrelated atrocities being committed against innocent and defenceless refugees sheltering in many UN schools in Gaza.
I can not understand how your can constantly shell and bomb civilians in the name of Peace or in the name of Israeli protection. It is horrendously sick and it is fundamentally wrong.
The BBC, which many a disproportionate high quantity of Jewish people, reported a UN official stating they have give the location of the UN school to the Israelis 33 times and the last notification only ONE HOUR before the Israeli terrorists shelled the school killing more civilians. Are you claiming the BBC was lying ? Are you claiming the UN official was lying ? Even the Jewish leader of the British Labour Party has expressed grave concern about Israel’s wanton terrorism.
Israeli terrorists (remember the King David?) are giving other Jews an undeserved bad reputation.
Your confused collection of garbled may convince you Israel is totally innocent of mass crimes against civilians but the rest of the world disagrees.
If you have any influence in Israel, then tell then to stop the killings of more than 1,800 civilians and the injuring, some permanent, of more than 9,000 people. Just because Israel got away with these war crime atrocities on numerous previous occasions, including in Lebanon, it may not get away with them this time.
I do not believe Hamas is innocent. Tunnels blown-up today will be dug again tomorrow. Why can’t the stupid Israeli fools understand that to stop the tunnels means talking as equals with the enemy ?
With Israel’s international reputation in tatters, surely now is the time to stop the aggressive violence and to begin talking ?
Talking does not kill anyone.
Curious Cat.
You say the BBC has a disproportionate number of Jewish staff. This is a person who professed not to be anti-Semitic but feels it OK to make a statement that Goebbels would have commended.
Look Sunshine,
I have never ever been anti-Jewish, anti-Moslem or anti any religious belief. It is the quality of the person that matters, not their religion.
The only pathetic defence you can muster to justify the Israeli terrorism perpetuated against civilians in Gaza is to falsely claim terrorism critics are anti-Jewish. How can Jews that dare to criticise the status quo be anti-Jewish ?
The point about the BBC, is yes they do have a lot of Jews working there. Despite that fact the BBC has accurately, without bias, embellishment or distortion, reported the news fairly and accurately, sometimes with admirable restraint, from Gaza. Al Jazeera English has too.
It must be obvious to a highly intelligent person like you, that within the BBC orthodox and non-orthodox Jews really feel unhappy with Israel’s massively disproportionate response to Hamas which has had, over many years, a continuing aim of attacking anything Israeli.
Its not only the non-Jews that think Israel has acted too aggressively by committing atrocities, it is Jewish people too regardless of their nationality.
The devastating conflict has nothing to do with religion. Instead it is caused by the overinflated ego of a very long time right-wing extremist who struggles to stay in power and, to do so, needs the support of Israel’s extremists and hard-line right-wing minority parties.
Peace to everyone including you.
Talking does not kill people – it saves lives so people can become friends.
Curious Cat.
Curious Cat, you are right – talking does not kill anyone.
Sir Gerald Kaufman famously went against the hysterical knee-jerk position of the West and suggested that Israel should be talking to Hamas to find a way forward. Instead, Israel is just intent on bombing hospitals, schools and killing innocent civilians. Relatives of the nearly 2000 dead due to Israel’s latest war crimes will be intent on taking revenge on Israel. They’ll join Hamas. It is a never ending vicious circle until they sit down, talk and find a solution for long lasting peace in the region.
=> Clapham,
I appreciate your intelligent and truthful analysis It is nice to have some common sense.
Destructing tunnels today, will never stop tunnels being dug tomorrow.
Bombing, shelling and rocketing civilians and destroying their homes, their lives and their possessions is not going to nurture a culture of friendship and peaceful feelings.
You are absolutely correct Clapham. The only solution to end the mass murders and the destruction is both sides talking to each other as responsible adults. Both sides apologising, both sides genuinely being committed to mutual coexistence and both sides agreeing to a free and independent Palestine with a seat at the UN.
Its obvious to me Netanyahu wants to gradually force-out the Arabs from the remainder of their land. The war-monger is petrified by Hamas uniting with the legitimate Palestinian government. He fears Palestinian unity more than he fears loosing political power. He has always been an impediment to a lasting peace.
Hamas has to agree to free and fair elections in Gaza overseen by the international community.
Curious Cat
hear hear
Blimey, talk about digress! Isn’t the issue about Loony Lutfur acting above his payscale, when he can’t even be bothered to answer questions at full council meetings? But I’m not surprised by his further ludicrous actions, especially at a time intended to distract from other embarrassing events. Actually, I may renames him to Triple L – Ludicrous, Loony Lutfur.
Baroness Warsi who resigned from government this morning over her disapproval of Britains absence to condemn Israel for its massacre of Gaza also clearly expresses her belief that radicalisation can breed in Britain due to the blatant ignorance and injustice to Palestine and humanity.
Letter of resignation sent by email.
About time too. What we are doing with an islamist in this post is beyond belief. Talk about PC gone mad!
I always consider her to have unquestioning allegiance to the Conservative Party.
I admire her morality and having the guts to speak-out on a matter of principle. Her action will shame the gutless.
Curious Cat.
Her allegiance was bought by the Conservatives by appointments that were made to her. She has never won an election to any office she has held.
That same applies to virtually all of the over-bloated House of Lords.
Pay enough money to the Conservatives, Lib Dems or Labour and get a “free” Lordship or Ladyship. Sometimes one’s spouse gets a “free” matching bonus title.
Alternatively, one can also get a Lordship or Ladyship by demonstrating one’s ardent and morally incomprehensible loyalty to a major political party.
Down the chain, many get OBEs (one up from MBEs), CBEs and KBEs usually because its the “done thing” or because its rewarding political loyalty.
Very few genuinely deserving people get a government honour. Who can be proud of such a system ?
Curious Cat.
She just wanted some attention so she could further enrich herself
I think she just wanted someone to notice her… after all she was put in the government for no reason at all apart from her ethnic background which is a bit like judging a meal on the basis of it’s colour. Fat arsed, whiney waste of space if you ask me – glad Boris ended her fifteen minutes!
Government response
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/downing-street-response-to-baroness-warsi-standing-down
To all those hamas excusers and sympathizers, I think the Sydney Morning Herald (Not an Israeli paper) has most of the answers.
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-hamas-trap-hidden-labyrinth-was-wired-for-war-20140803-zzznh.html
Can’t we put Lutfur forward for the House of Lords? It might be the only way of getting him to move on and leave his LBTH Office.
It’s not like he will stand up and make speeches in the Lords. They would just have to keep an eye on the flag pole and give him his own taxi rank.
After all this venom from you hamas supporters, a word from someone far mor articulate than I
Blah blah blah….
At the end of the day Tower Hamlets is a local authority and is not an appropriate forum for any discussion of international affairs. It is a waste of council time and therefore a waste of tax payers money to spend time debating anything the council can do nothing about.
It’s high time LBTH started doing things useful and which were not a misuse of other people’s money!
And now we have jihadist flags in Poplar High Street
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/flag-isis-jihadi-islamic-state-flown-poplar-east-london
Lutfur erected the flag of Hamas/Palestine* above the town hall.
AND THAT ACT INCITED YOUNG MUSLIMS IN POPLAR TO ERECT THE FLAG OF ISIS
ISIS is an organisation of greater evil than the Waffen SS. It is currently executing a policy of GENOCIDE in northern Iraq against Christians and Yazidis and any other religious minorities because it wants to create a “pure” society. It is busy destroying ancient historical and archaelogical treasures. Worse than the Nazis its joyful jihadis are personally beheading people and putting their severed heads on spikes…
And yet the children of the Will Crooks Estate – educated in England – think it is somehow okay to praise this group and proclaim their estate part of this vile caliphate? What or who could have made them so bold?
Oh yes. Mr. Mayor. Mr. Divisive. Mr Inciteful. Mr. Mafia.
Can you imagine how non-Muslims feel living on the Will Crooks Estate?Frankly, I feel threatened. Do I dare go to Poplar?
Our utterly craven borough commander “Call me Dave” Stringer needs to get a grip and get off his proverbial and go and arrest the mayor for inciting racial hatred. It is of no coincidence that one of the mayor’s key allies Abjol Miah is a Tower Hamlets First councillor who was elected on the mayor’s ticket and Cllr.Abjol Miah is also leading member of the Islamic Forum of Europe – a neo-Nazi organisation. The IFE – which THF Cllr Alibor Choudhury praised as a “progressive organisation” which the council “should work with” – has as one of its leader a man named Azad Ali…lets recap about what we know about Azad Ali:
– Azad Ali opposes democracy “if it means at the expense of not implementing the sharia”
– Azad Ali sued the Daily Mail for suggesting that comments on his blog showed that he was “a hardline Islamic extremist who supports the killing of British and American soldiers in Iraq by fellow Muslims as justified”. He lost.
– Azad Ali used to attend talks by the spiritual leader of Al Qaeda in Europe: Abu Qatada.
– Azad Ali wants Ismail Haniyeh – leader of the genocidal antisemitic terrorist organisation, Hamas – to be the Caliph of the next Caliphate.
– Azad Ali admired the Al Qaeda and recruiter Anwar al-Awlaki and had this to say about him on the Islamic Forum of Europe’s blog: “I really do love him for the sake of Allah, he has an uncanny way of explaining things to people which is endearing.”
– Azad Ali’s show on the Islam Channel was sanctioned by OFCOM for its failure to maintain due impartiality in its coverage of the Israel-Palestine conflict, including in relation to comments on Mahmoud Abbas. That’s because he’s a Hamas supporter.
– When an undercover reporter for Dispatches exposed Azad Ali’s political views, he threatened them on his radio show, saying: “We’ve got a picture of you and a lot more than you thought we had. We’ve tracked you down to different places. And if people are gonna turn what I’ve just said into a threat, that’s their fault, innit?”
So Dave, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? Why should we have any faith in the local police to protect people from these fascists? You need to break up the IFE. You need to search the mayor’s computers, his house and arrest him for incitement. You need to police that state and remove those flags.