I’ve written this piece for today’s Sunday Express which has relevance to Tower Hamlets.
The Met has a real problem attracting enough frontline officers from BME communities. Managers at the Yard are acutely aware of this diversity gap, which is much wider in Tower Hamlets than any other borough.
Here’s a page from the Met’s Diversity Health Check report that shows that while 42.9 per cent of the borough’s population is from a BME background (black and minority ethnic), BME officers represent only 14.7 per cent of the borough’s police force.
That’s a serious problem.
But as Keith Vaz MP says in the below piece, I’m not sure downgrading the written English test is the solution.
Instead of accepting what many think is a problem in some migrant communities, the Met would be better off using its evidence there is a relative failure of BME candidates to perform well in these tests to lobby policymakers for change in broader education policies.
For we know in Tower Hamlets that Mayor Lutfur Rahman is continuing to chuck hundreds of thousands of pounds of our tax money into FREE Bengali mother tongue classes–when he knows full well kids are struggling with English.
Scotland Yard, though, doesn’t have a good track record in getting things right in this area.
Here’s the piece:
SCOTLAND Yard wants to downgrade the importance of written English tests at police recruitment centres to make it easier for candidates from ethnic minorities to join the Met.
Bosses believe people who do not have English as their first language are being discriminated against under current assessment rules.
They have recommended the weighting placed on the “Written Communication” section of the Metropolitan Police’s tough entrance exam is lowered.
However, they fear a “white backlash” among rank and file officers who feel they have already been passed over for promotion.
Home Affairs Committee chairman, MP Keith Vaz, said last night any move to drop standards would be “insulting” to ethnic minority candidates themselves, and would risk losing public cofidence.
The details are contained in an internal Met report marked “restricted” but which has been obtained by the Sunday Express under the Freedom of Information Act.
The Diversity Health Check document highlights a growing concern about race relations at the Yard, 11 years after the publication of the Macpherson Report into allegations of “institutionalised racism” surrounding the death of Stephen Lawrence in 1998.
The diversity report paints a picture of an agonised management acutely aware their workforce is not representative of the wider London community but at the same time concerned not to damage the moral of existing staff.
However, Met managers are determined to press ahead on filling the diversity gap.
The report, written by the Diversity and Citizen Focus Directorate in June last year—and still being discussed with Met Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe—recommends the Yard lobby for a law change that would allow “positive discrimination” in recruitment.
At the end of April last year, just 16 per cent of the Met’s 53,000 strong workforce was from an ethnic minority background, whereas non-whites comprise 41 per cent of the capital’s population.
To bridge the gap, the Met, instead of direct external entry, is now recruiting an increasing number of constables from the ranks of Police Community Support Officers where the pool of non-whites is far greater.
However, all constables must still pass the Met’s entrance test, known as Search (Structured Entrance Assessment for Recruiting Constables Holistically)—and this has been identified as part of the problem.
A statistical analysis of past exam results concluded that white candidates were more than twice as likely to pass.
This was “statistically significant” and not “random error”, the report’s authors stated.
They added: “The analysis also revealed that factors including increased levels of academic attainment, English as a first language and experience within the PCSO or Special Constable roles, impacted significantly upon Search outcomes, substantially improving the odds of success.
“However, the Written Communication competency area is an area of particular concern due to the weighting it is given in terms of the overall outcome of Search, considering it contributes a very small amount to the overall percentage.
“The data showed that substantial numbers of candidates achieved the overall pass threshold level – in the current case 55 per cent – often performing superbly in the majority of competency areas, but failed Search on the basis of the Written Communication competency.
“The competency appeared to have a disproportionately adverse impact upon Black and Minority Ethnic candidates, with candidates from this group nearly two times more likely to fail Search on the basis of Written Communication than white candidates.
“Paradoxically, Search was designed to measure potential to perform the role yet allows a single factor, which is very much a product of education and socialisation…to significantly influence the outcome of selection.”
It recommends Deputy Commissioner Craig Mackey reconsider a previous proposal to raise the Search pass mark from 55 per cent to 70 per cent because “it would adversely affect black and minority ethnic recruitment”.
However, Labour MP Keith Vaz said: “We need more ethnic minority recruits to the police service.
“But it would be insulting to the black and minority ethnic applicant if standards were reduced, and to the public who would not respect the process. “There is a huge pool of talent within the ethnic minorities we need to ensure it is properly and fairly tapped.”
A spokeswoman for the Met said the force was making “excellent progress” on the recruitment issues but added: “We continue to review recruitment processes to ensure we recruit a workforce representative of London.
“We are not complacent and will continue to enhance our recruitment processes within the boundaries set by equality legislation to build upon this success.”
Trial by Jeory 
You have to be born in the UK (or, I think, the Dominions) to be a copper. So how is it “discriminatory” to insist applicants can read, write, comprehend and speak in English to a reasonable standard? If someone was mentally defective then expecting them to do as well as the rest would be unfair. But for a young person, raised in this country, it is not a big ask. If they want to become fluent in the national language there is nothing stopping them. Babies are born unable to speak whatever their background, if you want your kid to have opportunities then teach it the lingua franca first. If I went somewhere like Brazil, to live, NOTHING is translated from Portuguese. Is Brazil a racist country because of that? No. This reform will only lead to corruption and the entryism we saw ruin Labour in this borough. Which is probably why those usual suspects are pushing this.
Is the only way to stop all this nonsense for the Tories to win outright? I never ever thought I’d wish such a thing…
Hi Grave Maurice,
> You have to be born in the UK (or, I think, the Dominions) to be a copper.
Think your statement is fundamentally wrong. Might have been accurate many tens of years ago.
You’re right… I did say “I think” though because i was unsure. I looked it up:
“A British, Irish or a Commonwealth citizen (whose stay in this country is not subject to restriction)”
Which would mean, in practise, it was people who had been naturalized, given indefinite leave to remain (usually through marriage) but the largest proportion would be Australians, South Africans, Kiwis and Canadians who have the right to live and work here because they have British ancestry (a grandparent or parent who was born in the UK).
I strongly agree with most of your comments on this issue
There are several Tower Hamlets councillors who struggle to make themselves understood in English. How about an English test for candidates?
Agreed.
PLUS an English test for all voters to eliminate those unable to understand English, those unable to read and who sign their ‘name’ with a thumb print.
Lets clean-up the LBTH cesspit.
Immigrants must learn English as soon as possible after arrival. At the same time their children attending state school have the right to learn their own mother tongues along with learning English language. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental period. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. They need to lean standard English to follow the National curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, they must learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit.
It would be interesting to see figures on the proportion of migrants’ children that go on to university to study engineering, science, mathematics, law and finance, and also what proportion of migrants’ children grow up to depend on council houses, dole, tax-credits, and housing benefits for the rest of their lives. How do these figures compare to the “indigenous” population?
IA
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Muslim children “need state-funded Muslim schools” where there would be “no place for non-Muslim teachers and students”. That is just racial separatism and goes some way to demonstrate why the Muslim bubble of Tower Hamlets is so pernicious. You need a reality check mate, why should 95% of the population pay for the 5% who can’t get on with anyone else to have their own schools which our kids can’t go to. Why are Muslims special? Please explain WHY non-Muslims have a duty to subsidise you Muslims.. No, its madness, you are in England so speak English and why don’t you consider converting you might find life more enjoyable. Your comment made me really angry but perhaps that was your intention.
Iftikhar,
> Immigrants must learn English as soon as possible after arrival.
Agreed and they should get free state help, unless they are rich. But why are we still accepting the floods of immigrants?
> At the same time their children attending state school have the right to learn their own mother tongues along with learning English language. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental period. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.
Wrong. When anyone becomes domiciled in another country they MUST learn the host country’s language and customs. Any obsession with learning a foreign language, unknown to the child, of their parents’ home country or of the parent’s imposed religious choice, should NOT be funded by the State (the tax payers).
> They need to lean standard English to follow the National curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, they must learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.
More bollocks. Immigrants should adopt the culture of their chosen country.
There is massive cultural beauty in Norwegian, Russian, German, French and English languages. If the obsession with Pakistani and Bangladeshi languages persist then go to those countries. Don’t make England a copy of a corrupt, bigoted and poor Pakistani or Bangladesh. Don’t arrogantly stamp-out our English and Western European culture simply because its good and superior to the ‘culture’ in Pakistani and in Bangladesh. If you don’t like it in England, then emigrate and close the door behind you.
> A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit.
Being a Moslem fanatic is a million times worse. Everyone in England can learn a language, usually at their own cost.
> It would be interesting to see figures on the proportion of migrants’ children that go on to university to study engineering, science, mathematics, law and finance, and also what proportion of migrants’ children grow up to depend on council houses, dole, tax-credits, and housing benefits for the rest of their lives. How do these figures compare to the “indigenous” population?
Lets start with wholesale tax avoidance as encountered in Pakistan which has the LOWEST tax collection rate on the whole globe. Then move on to the harsh treatment of women and girls who are regarded as third class by illiterate fanatics. What’s the next choice? terrorism, child sexual abuse, poverty and hunger, corruption, murders, acid attacks, bombings?
I know good Moslims from Pakistan and from Arab countries whom I am proud to call my good friends. None of them ever behave like you.
As you are so unhappy here, my best advice is go away and find another country like Pakistan and stay there. See if they tolerate you as much as we do, and have done, for many years.
England is not excellent but it is a lot superior to some countries.
Curious Cat.
Wow. Just Wow. I haven’t looked into this blog for a week or so and come across this complete gem.
This post should be framed and hung on the wall of John Biggs’s office, and the office of whoever the Tory candidate for Mayor is (any more news on this Ted?), as an incentive to end the days of the failed administration we have in place now.
To say I am disgusted is to put it too mildly. I hope this is a joke, but fear iftikhara is being serious.
Tim
Well if you want the police to be able to do their job then they need BME officers at whatever costs. If they have the capacity to be excellent at some future date then it makes sense to recruit them with non-ideal English and then improve it alongside their officer training.
I know that sounds totally crazy but if you cast your minds back to the London Riots or the Bradford Riots the reason the police sat on their hands and let people run a muck was because the overwhelming majority of people kicking off were from BME communities. When the rioting spread to Manchester and Salford the police went in hard and were not afraid to give them a beating and a huge factor behind that was because the people doing the rioting were white.
These sorts of instances will only increase in frequency. Can you imagine the carnage that would have happened if an overwhelmingly white police force had gone in heavy handedly from the start in London?
The ‘best’ person for the job is not necessarily the best candidate that has the most added value. Language, culture ethnicity are huge factors for public facing roles. Operation Trident, the task force that looks into ‘black on black crime’ is a fantastic example.
A white officer is less credible in many BME communities not because they’re not good at their job but because residents are hostile towards them and see them as the enemy. Residents and applicants need to learn and have good English but we are where we are and the reality is many of them do not, a majority in many areas. If you want to go back to ‘community policing’ then the community has to accept the police to begin with and that’s unlikely to be the case in many areas. The same is true of teaching and the health profession, although the NHS is full of BME staff so it’s not so much of an issue.
How is the Police Force meant to deal effectively with these issues without a huge surge in BME police officers ?
Asian Grooming
Honour Killings
Acid Attacks
Asian Heroin gangs
Yardie gun culture & organised crime?
People trafficking/ Arranged marriages
Child abuse due to suspected witchcraft etc
HarveyMilk Jnr,
I watched the Tottenham Riot live on BBC from the beginning.
The lazy useless senior police officers were a disgrace to everyone, public and police.
Part of a policeman’s job is talking to the public – not the white public (IC1) or the Asian (Indian sub-continent) (IC4) or the Afro-Caribbean public (IC3) or the Chinese or the mixed race public. Its talking to the public without fear or favour and skin colour does not come in to it.
If police officers can’t talk to the public, kick them out because they are useless.
The Tottenham Riot would never had occurred if the borough commander or his deputy had come out with a loud speaker and talked and listened to the crowd who pay his wages.
If you really want potentially good but not well versed in English candidates, then send them to adult education to get the necessary English skills for the job. On the beat training in English is definitely not appropriate for many operational reasons.
A whitey can speak to a non-white crowd, similarly to a white crowd. Its about gaining the attention of the crowd, not taking the piss and being serious and concerned by the public’s grievances.
In the upper ranks of the police there is a preponderance of dead wood. In the lower ranks there is too much corruption and thuggery. That is why I support the Tom Winsor (HMIC) reforms.
Curious Cat.
What about the muslim sex gangs that rape white girls
I think that’s a really silly attitude to take on this subject and nowhere in your response have you answered any of my central points. Given the fact that a young Black/Mixed raced man was shot had an overwhelmingly white police force ‘cracked down’ as they would with white football hooligans what would have been the result? Is the inevitable descent into anarchy in the capital worth arresting a few youngsters for looting and running a muck? How much more would that have cost the taxpayer?
Police also have a duty to protect the larger public. If you think the rioting was bad it would have paled into insignificance what would happened had the police been seen to be using cannons and truncheons on a group that was overwhelmingly black and mixed raced. All it would take is one BME youngster to be wrongly accused or roughed up to cause a huge race riot that is what the government and the Mayor were trying to avoid.
I didn’t say a white officer cannot do the job the point i was trying to make was in many instances a white officer is not always as effective and not welcomed by a particular community. Community policing relies on the community whether it is the whole community or a contingent of it to accept the police locally, you can’t easily build trust otherwise.
For example, ‘Asian grooming’ has been going on for a long time and we’re only finding out about it now precisely because the police haven’t got a clue what goes on in that community regarding domestic violence generally and sexual violence in particular. Many Asian women suffer terrible abuse from their husbands and many of the murders are preventable. Recent Tower Hamlets example:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20435607
We might not light the multicultural policies that have led us to this point but where here, and if you want an effective police force then you need one that can work across all of our communities. Recruiting BME officers who might need to improve their English is worth in the longer run it we can tackle those larger issues.
To say that only BME officers can handle BME people is wrong on so many levels. First, because it presumes BME is all the same; would a Chinese officer be better with Muslim rape gangs than a white officer?? Also, if we take your point why not apply it in reverse and say white pensioners can only be assisted by white nurses, for cultural reasons. The whole rationale is bogus: we need integration (and intermarriage) not Balkanization.
Hi HarveyMilk Jnr,
> You’re not letting facts and reality interrupt the flow of your posts.
I’m certainly not keen on introducing a Tower Hamlets-only version of the Met Police Service. Was or is that your intention?
> Your points although reasonable in a perfect world do not respond to the reality of multicultural London and Tower Hamlets so what good is it?
An honest and realistic acceptance that policemen must have basic competence in their operational language, English.
> Points 1 2 and 3 basically say if you have a poor understanding of English you can’t do the job.
True.
> That’s complete rubbish. The NHS as we all know is full of Drs, GPs nurses surgeons even with extremely poor written and spoken english and for the most part it’s not a huge problem. The NHS has a standard service where medical notes are sent abroad to be typed up.
I’m much better qualified than you to comment on the NHS’ staff ability to write, read and speak English.
In hospitals everything is eventually seen by a person competent in English. Thus no confusion. No uncertainty.
In GP practises the ‘English’ ability of a few general practitioners is bad. The College of GPs and the other medical colleges plus the national government are tackling the problem. That problem periodically highlights itself with avoidable patient deaths, wrong treatments and other adverse happenings. That is not a commendable recommendation for the promotion of semi-English literacy in essential public services.
Avoidable deaths, whether of NHS patients or other members of the public, are definitely “a huge problem“. Dead people don’t come back to life. There is no second chance to “get it right”.
> The key questions are : Is it better to have a higher bar which many BME candidates who otherwise would make fantastic officers routinely fail to meet or : Is it better to continue with a situation where our police force increasingly does not look like the communities they’re policing. You refuse to answer either question and you pad your posts out with the history of policing which although interesting fail to address the point.
Please be realistic. You haven’t got a clue which semi-English literate people will become “fantastic officers“. There is no factual basis for your essentially bogus and excessively optimistic assertion.
You are living in a distorted encapsulation of social reality. LBTH is flooded with people from outside Europe. Some are semi-literate at best. Some are fundamentally backward in their customs and ‘culture’. Policing those is a challenge.
The best way is to educate those people; make them competent in the host country’s language (English) and make them feel at easy with people of all skin colours who have successfully adopted the host country as ‘their’ country. I call it assimilation and integration.
For example we don’t mutilate girls’ genitals with a razor blade or sharp knife. We don’t beat children. We don’t abuse women and girls because of their feminine gender. We don’t murder people because of a disagreement. We don’t explode bombs because we are angry with America or Britain or because we want to impose our intolerant and repressive version of religion on the entire world.
Bangladeshi-only police is not the answer. Multi-coloured police, primarily fluent in English, is. The public are living in ENGLAND not in Bangladesh. The sooner the public accept that elementary fact, the better for everyone.
> Also I’d like to point out that in Belgium Dutch, French and German are all official languages the police typically speak one of them fluently despite huge chunks of the populous speaking the other two. It’s not a big deal.
Your “It’s not a big deal” is misleading.
In Belgie, created in 1830, most speak some English. Most speak their regional language and the other main language. In the small area by the German border, they speak German, English and at least one of the Belgium versions of French or Dutch. One thing you will discover is the police in Belgie have a higher level of education than many of the police in England.
Finally, if you really want some failed candidates to become police officers and they do well except in their English usage and competency tests, then pay for them to attend adult classes to perfect their English and invite them back for re-testing. Abolishing an essential standard of basic competency is ballistically bonkers.
Curious Cat.
And the Muslim girls being groomed and attacked by sex gangs.
The purpose of the police is protecting the public. Its simple, easy to understand and commendable. Policing according to Robert Peel is about civilians in uniforms (meaning the public acting as the guardians or police) ‘policing’ the community by consent.
The police follow the rules written in the law and obey commands, oral and written, from their supervisors and managers.
Having a mixture of different people from different backgrounds is always good for any organisation, providing the effect is cohesive and not divisive and everyone contributes to the welbeing of the organisation.
A policeman (including policewomen) must know their remit as Constables (every copper, blue bottle, rozer etc. regardless of rank is technically ‘a Constable’).
In England, including London where one often finds the Met Police playing politics and cover-ups when not physically attacking innocent pedestrians walking home, the language of the majority of the population, the various administrations, the legal system and even those in Buckingham House, descendent from the Germans foreigners, speak, read and write English.
The habit of using English within England has persisted for many hundreds of years. Admittedly since about 1700-odd when German was replaced as the major foreign influence on English by French, English has altered a little. For example, the spelling of connexion and shewn have changed. English took from French, police, ambulance, hospital for example.
When ‘Les Anglais’ visit France they know without translation help what police, ambulance and hospitals are. Understanding the language means ambiguity is replaced by certainty.
When living and working in a country, its beneficial to understand that country’s language and customs. Its desirable too even for Met Policemen.
1. If a policeman can not fully understand written English, then how can that policeman fully understand the law, his obligations, the PACE codes and his instructions ?
2. If a policeman can not fully understand English speech (oral English) he can not fully understand his orders from his police radio, he can not fully understand what his supervisors and managers are telling him. Worse of all, he can not fully understand what the public are saying.
3. If a policeman can not fully understand English grammar, he can not write a competent witness statement either for himself or for a member of the public. He will also be unable to write comprehensible entries in his police notebook which are supposed to be regularly seen by his supervisor.
Employing sub-standard policemen who have difficulties understanding English inevitably means the policeman will have to depend on others – other policemen, other members of the public and even crooks, villains, terrorists, rapists and murderers for advice of how he should interpret and ultimately enforce the law.
Just image the scene down at a mugging of an elderly defenceless and weak 90 year old pensioner. Mugger tells the cop
“You can only arrest me on suspicion of mugging the old cow if you actually witnessed it yourself with your own two eyes; that’s the law mate. The honest truth. You got to let me go else you will get fined in court for unlawful arrest.”
So the Met’s sub-standard ‘political’ choice of police officer lets the criminal go free.
British Justice is simply great especially the Met’s Political version.
A friend, a career cop in the Met who can retire in a few years, wrote to me, in a personal capacity, about this astonishing Sunday Express story. My friend said
“My personal opinion is that standards are already too low & we should be increasing them across the board for all prospective candidates / recruits.
“Anything less is an insult to capable BME officers & the general public alike.
“Standards matter!”
Obviously my friend is never going to make senior or even ACPO rank with an attitude like that.
Curious Cat.
You’re not letting facts and reality interrupt the flow of your posts. Your points although reasonable in a perfect world do not respond to the reality of multicultural London and Tower Hamlets so what good is it?
Points 1 2 and 3 basically say if you have a poor understanding of English you can’t do the job.
That’s complete rubbish. The NHS as we all know is full of Drs, GPs nurses surgeons even with extremely poor written and spoken english and for the most part it’s not a huge problem. The NHS has a standard service where medical notes are sent abroad to be typed up.
The key questions are : Is it better to have a higher bar which many BME candidates who otherwise would make fantastic officers routinely fail to meet or : Is it better to continue with a situation where our police force increasingly does not look like the communities they’re policing. You refuse to answer either question and you pad your posts out with the history of policing which although interesting fail to address the point.
@ Ted I think filling the diversity gap is the most important. If they score well in all other areas of the test I don’t see the problem. English and be improved on the job and you don’t need to send an officer with substandard English out into the public on their own. I can see why Keith Vaz raised an eyebrow, it doesn’t look good but we are where we are.
Also I’d like to point out that in Belgium Dutch, French and German are all official languages the police typically speak one of them fluently despite huge chunks of the populous speaking the other two. It’s not a big deal.
Written police statements are used as the basis for CPS decisions and as evidence in a cort of law.
Would you as a defendant be ok with a police officer who has problems communicating their thoughts into written English?
Your analogy with Belgium is false.
Officers there must be expert in an official language.
Diversity gap ‘much wider in Tower Hamlets than in any other borough’?
Shurely shome mishtake?
Your own figures appear to suggest it is wider in Merton, Brent and Newham.
yes, i did mean to add in the word ‘almost’. Thanks.
Any views on the substance of the piece, though?
Ted Jeory : Your analogy with Belgium is false. Officers there must be expert in an official language.
Isn’t that what i said? The point I was making is police officers are often fluent in a language that the population is not fluent in, typically French. All of you are predicting pandemonium because officers might not have excellent English and they get by fine in Belgium.
This is what I said :
“Also I’d like to point out that in Belgium Dutch, French and German are all official languages the police typically speak one of them fluently despite huge chunks of the populous speaking the other two. It’s not a big deal”.
I used Belgium as an example because it proves that you can police a community perfectly well with medium and in many instances very poor language skills. When it comes to writing up documents which is something our own government wants our officers to do less of you can have assistance. Do our police officers need to have degree level English?
I think I’m right in saying you can join the police after leaving school so that would be GCSE standard English that is not difficult to obtain. If an applicant from X underrepresented group gets a D it would be crazy to right them off when you can give them a little bit of support and get them over the threshold. We have plenty of indigenous white English kids with extremely poor written and spoken English who with a bit of assistance would probably make decent police officers too.
Nobody is suggesting that somebody who just gets off the boat should be hurried into the police force.
Hi HarveyMilk Jnr,
Belgie is not a good example to promote your
With SHAPE, NATO, EU and being a major European destination and intersection, language capacity and competency among the locals is very good, far superior to parts of the LBTH.
> “Also I’d like to point out that in Belgium Dutch, French and German are all official languages the police typically speak one of them fluently despite huge chunks of the populous speaking the other two. It’s not a big deal”.
Onzin. Don’t insult the Belgians. Niet een maar twee of drie of vier talen !!!!! Je vous pardon. I mean the Belgians speak two or more European languages very fluently including the ability to spell.
> I used Belgium as an example because it proves that you can police a community perfectly well with medium and in many instances very poor language skills.
Please stop insulting the Belgians. Their police do not police communities whilst exercising poor Belgium Dutch, Belgium French or German language ability.
> When it comes to writing up documents which is something our own government wants our officers to do less of you can have assistance. Do our police officers need to have degree level English?
One does not require a first degree in the English language (which institution offers that as a single subject?) to write a coherent report. One needs clarity of thought and a familiarity with the language. Even people from ‘backward’ or ‘undeveloped’ countries possess that. Therefore there is no excuse for the promotion of slovenly LBTH standards. Lets lift-up the people. Don’t condemn them to a third or forth class life.
Curious Cat.
You missed my point. It’s written English that’s key.
In Belgium, officers write their evidence in an official language in which they’re fluent.
That’s why the bar needs to be high in English.
Downgrading English language test requirements/standards might simply allow more Eastern Europeans to join the Met leaving other communities representatives with a choice of becoming THEOs, IFE stewards or joining Muslim Patrol.
EU citizens, beyond Ireland, may not join the police (see above) unless they are naturalized British Citizens
Clearly contradicting metpolicecareers.co.uk/eligibility_requirements.html – EU citizens get indefinite leave to remain status automatically after 5 years of working in the UK.
I stand corrected!
@Curious Cat
You’re being needlessly pedantic. Of course many Belgians know both but there are many that don’t and it doesn’t trigger a crisis in policing or communication there is give and take. But I’m sure you know that. Just as there is give and take in that situation it’s not necessary that our police be able to talk in Shakespearean English. Is it better that they are fluent in above GCSE level English yes but is it absolutely necessary? I also used the NHS as an example many of our GPs and nurses speak extremely poor English. Would we rather they improved? Yes, is there a crisis in the NHS because they continue to speak poor English? No.
‘In 2006, the Université Catholique de Louvain, the country’s largest French-speaking university, published a report: The surveys show that Flanders is clearly more multilingual, which is without doubt a well known fact, but the difference is considerable : whereas 59% and 53% of the Flemings know French or English respectively, only 19% and 17% of the Walloons know Dutch or English’.
So what about the other half give or take of the community? You’re being playful because I used a generalisation but your point that there is a high level of bilingualism does not negate the fact that there are large amounts of Belgians who cannot speak both, especially older Belgians. Governance, policing etc continues perfectly well, people muddle through.
Curious Cat:
‘One does not require a first degree in the English language (which institution offers that as a single subject?) to write a coherent report. One needs clarity of thought and a familiarity with the language. Even people from ‘backward’ or ‘undeveloped’ countries possess that. Therefore there is no excuse for the promotion of slovenly LBTH standards. Lets lift-up the people. Don’t condemn them to a third or forth class life’
I completely agree with you the bar should be high but you’re criticising the UKs lax integration policy and our take on multiculturalism that’s a different debate entirely. According to the 2011 census 44.9% of London’s residents are White British. Irrespective of anything else if you want the Met to be able to do its job effectively then you need BME officers.
Lets just say for the purpose of this discussion that the overwhelming majority of BME applicants have dodgy English it follows from your argument that we should continue with a situation of having a police force that is unrepresentative until such time BME applicants improve their English. What happens if they don’t improve their English? What happens if it takes say 5-10 years to get them through the education system should we wait for that?
You’re basically saying you’re willing to compromise on having an effective police force that can actually police to maintain a robust admissions test. Personally I think that’s absurd but for those who agree with it don’t complain when you have BME sensitive crimes or mass rioting and white police officers either sit on their hands because they fear inflaming a situation or can’t deal with it effectively.
HarveyMilk Jnr.
I am responding to your posting dated September 17, 2013 at 12:00 am (I suspect the Yanks do not know the difference between PM and AM – that is one of the effects of the American promoted ‘virtue’ of dumbing-down everything.)
> it’s not necessary that our police be able to talk in Shakespearean English.
That is not English and has not been ‘English’ for more than 300 years, so why bring that irrelevant ‘nonsense’ into this debate?
Wikipedia states “William Shakespeare (26 April 1564 (baptised) – 23 April 1616)”
> In 2006, the Université Catholique de Louvain …………
Please don’t waste every one’s time and effort by regurgitating Google search results; its bordering on plagiarism 🙂
Either you can articulate your own arguments logically and succinctly (that lovely Margaret Hodge word to the 7 BBC clowns) or you have nothing of use to this serious debate. Idealism is never a suitable replacement for basic common sense.
Do another Google and you will find
Click to access maria_bech_espersen.pdf
written in English by a Danish student about the 4 Swiss languages and Belgium’s three. My Norwegian is very poor, so understanding the Danish forward is difficult and time consuming but I can understand the essence of the preface.
How many of your wonderful semi-literate aspirant cops can easily understand everything written on this Blog page ???? If they can’t, they should not be cops.
No doubt on your last trip to crime infested Mexico, you will have noticed the cops speaking in ‘numbers’ because they are semi-literate and have difficulty speaking their own language and difficulty understanding it too. Who wants that for London or even England? I don’t.
> I completely agree with you the bar should be high but you’re criticising the UKs lax integration policy and our take on multiculturalism that’s a different debate entirely. According to the 2011 census 44.9% of London’s residents are White British. Irrespective of anything else if you want the Met to be able to do its job effectively then you need BME officers.
The Met, properly resourced, can do its job with all Gay or all Lesbian or all Straight officers and even with all ‘pink’, all ‘black, all ‘white’ or all ‘brown’ officers regardless of the officers’ parent’s ancestry or their own religion.
Its all about having basic and essential standards. Uniform policing standards are important.
> Lets just say for the purpose of this discussion that the overwhelming majority of BME applicants have dodgy English it follows from your argument that we should continue with a situation of having a police force that is unrepresentative until such time BME applicants improve their English. What happens if they don’t improve their English? What happens if it takes say 5-10 years to get them through the education system should we wait for that?
You are being:-
(1) Racist
(2) Ignorant
(3) Silly
So-called ‘representation’ has never successfully worked in this country. Look at the LBTH mayor and his clique for example. The public prefer an effective police service to an ineffective police service staffed by ethnic look-alikes. The public want quality not crap and their taxes are paying for ‘quality’ not semi-literate public employees.
Just because someone ain’t WHITE it does NOT mean they are thick, stupid, crap, useless or even a fool.
Brains and ability are not, and never ever have been, the exclusive preserve or characteristics of the so-called White British.
The Met should head-hunt the best regardless of all the usual Labour Party racisms and clap-trap.
Why do you so desperately want BME (Black and Minority Ethnics, which must now include the white minorities in some areas) who are so poorly educated, or never educated at all, it will – in your own words – take 5 to 10 years to give them a very basic level of education, to become cops with all the extra powers of the law and then turn them loose upon the public?
Ballistically Bonkers (again).
> You’re basically saying you’re willing to compromise on having an effective police force that can actually police to maintain a robust admissions test. Personally I think that’s absurd but for those who agree with it don’t complain when you have BME sensitive crimes or mass rioting and white police officers either sit on their hands because they fear inflaming a situation or can’t deal with it effectively.
That’s a jumbled mess …..
(1) Effective policing does not and can not depend on semi-literate police officers.
(2) Bollocks to so-called ‘BME sensitivities’. Policing should be blind to people’s skin colour and their foreign, if any, origins. One Law applies equally to everyone.
(3) Crap white police officers as equally as crap as crap non-white officers. Good police officers are good not because of their skin colour or ‘ethnicity’ but because they possess the necessary literacy, attitude and ability to be good police officers.
Instead of wanting to take-on sub-standard people, the Met should take-on the best people regardless of their skin colour, their ethnicity, their sexual preferences, their religion and their ‘ancestry’.
That’s all folks. I have real work to do.
Curious Cat.
Response to Curious Cat
Curious Cat :
Please don’t waste every one’s time and effort by regurgitating Google search results; its bordering on plagiarism.
Why do you insist on being absolutely ridiculous? How can it be anything like plagiarism when I used quotation marks?.
Curious Cat: Either you can articulate your own arguments logically and succinctly (that lovely Margaret Hodge word to the 7 BBC clowns) or you have nothing of use to this serious debate. Idealism is never a suitable replacement for basic common sense.
Lovely and succinctly? Look at the length of your own posts. This is exactly what I meant when I said earlier that you don’t like to let facts interrupt the flow of your writing. You want to sit there bashing out hyperbolic nonsense ploughing on ignoring facts. What is wrong with providing a quote or a link to something that substantiates your argument? You have done that yourself many times.
Furthermore your link after that paragraph underscores the point I was making. Yes there are many bilingual people in Belgium and there is an extremely large minority, 35% even higher in many areas that are not bilingual. Governance and policing continues perfectly well which suggests that it wouldn’t be the end of the world to have less than ideal circumstances in the UK.
Curious Cat: How many of your wonderful semi-literate aspirant cops can easily understand everything written on this Blog page???? If they can’t, they should not be cops.
Please don’t construct straw men arguments. That’s not what I said. Nobody is arguing for ‘semi-literate cops’. If an applicant gets a D in my opinion it is not completely beyond the pale to accept that applicant if they had average or above average scores in all other areas of the assessment. That would allow you to attracted a needy demographic and improve their English whilst they were in the job.
Curious Cat: No doubt on your last trip to crime infested Mexico, you will have noticed the cops speaking in ‘numbers’ because they are semi-literate and have difficulty speaking their own language and difficulty understanding it too. Who wants that for London or even England? I don’t.
Children this is called a big fat straw man its what desperate people do when they’re floundering.
Curious Cat: The Met, properly resourced, can do its job with all Gay or all Lesbian or all Straight officers and even with all ‘pink’, all ‘black, all ‘white’ or all ‘brown’ officers regardless of the officers’ parent’s ancestry or their own religion. Its all about having basic and essential standards. Uniform policing standards are important.
Here is where the debate is. Why didn’t you include women in that list? Presumably you accept the need to have women in the police force for the force to be able to carry out their duties effectively. Or can men do the job effectively with no female participation? That is the logical extension of your argument. You go on to call me: ‘ignorant and silly’.
I’m not white. I don’t need you to tell me : ‘Just because someone ain’t WHITE it does NOT mean they are thick, stupid, crap, useless or even a fool’. I started the paragraph you criticised by saying clearly: ‘Lets just say for the purpose of this discussion’. It was a hypothetical point please re-read it and then re-read it again.
Curious Cat: Why do you so desperately want BME (Black and Minority Ethnics, which must now include the white minorities in some areas) who are so poorly educated, or never educated at all, it will – in your own words – take 5 to 10 years to give them a very basic level of education, to become cops with all the extra powers of the law and then turn them loose upon the public?
More straw men. That’s not what I said. This is what I said: ‘What happens if it takes say 5-10 years. The inference being that I do not believe we can wait 5-10 years which is why changing the language weighting is likely to produce more BME applicants now. You like making quotes up so I’ll be crystal clear: That does not mean you let BME candidates go through with 0%, 5% or 10% competency. If the threshold is 50% and they score 40% and have done well in all other areas of the assessment then i see nothing wrong in allowing them in, providing you bring them up to scratch and ease them into normal duties.
The reason I think we desperately need more BME officers is because I do not believe a police force which is disproportionately white is best able to carry out their duties in many parts of the country but especially our inner cities.
I don’t like patronising people by using capitals but I feel I have to: THAT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE, it is because many ethnic minority communities see the police as the enemy particularly white police officers.
They refuse to engage with them. They don’t typically inform on their own, which makes the job of the police needlessly difficult. Wouldn’t it be useful to have more BME police officers to help combat BME sensitive crimes? Or is the need for a robust admissions test more important?
This is exactly why many white girls in particular can disappear into thin air and get trussed up above chip shops to be used as communal sex slaves for years on end with nobody going to the police. This isn’t an academic point it’s real life. In fact, one of these sex fiends said he put his 13 year old victim into his kebabs. I know you don’t like backing up your claims but i do:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1552482/Missing-girls-body-put-into-kebab.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2313610/I-stolen-sex-gang-Katie-Taylor-drugged-raped-years–endured-pregnancy-abortion–abducted-predatory-gang-aged-13.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10060570/Oxford-grooming-gang-We-will-regret-ignoring-Asian-thugs-who-target-white-girls.html
Many ethnic minority communities live in BME dense areas either by choice or because of white flight. In these instances sending in huge battalions of white police officers is unlikely to be conducive to an effective community policing strategy. We’ve seen this before time and time again: The Bradford Riots, the London Riots, the Brixton Riots. Are you seriously going to argue that white officers have exactly the same capacity to work well in these contexts as a good proportion of BME officers would? If so do it.
The police force will increasingly do more surveillance work in Mosques and other ‘community settings’. Are white officers as effective in those settings? To what extent can white officers go undercover in those community settings? Saying white officers are not as effective in those contexts isn’t a critique of their professionalism it’s a response to an external reality on the ground which they have no control over but are being asked to investigate.
Operation Trident is a fantastic example. It’s not a coincidence that a Black woman chairs the organisation. It’s not a coincidence that despite being woefully underrepresented BME police officers front the campaign. So no I don’t think this view is ‘bonkers’. I think it’s painfully obvious that we need more BME officers to tackle gang related gun crime, acid attacks, honour killings etc. I’m not an expert but I’m pretty sure that white police officers won’t be able to infiltrate the growing number of yardie gun traffickers or Asian heroin gangs very easily.
Your posts really are absolutely littered with straw men and it’s really annoying.
Curious Cat:
(1) Effective policing does not and can not depend on semi-literate police officers.
Where did I say that it could?
Curious Cat:
(2) Bollocks to so-called ‘BME sensitivities’. Policing should be blind to people’s skin colour and their foreign, if any, origins. One Law applies equally to everyone.
Where did I call for people to consider the sensitivities of BME communities? Where am I arguing that the law should not apply equally to everyone? It’s white girls who are typically groomed and raped by Asian gangs not BME girls. It’s white businesses typically that are extorted by Yardie gangs not BME businesses. Do you seriously not see the added value of BME officers in those contexts ?
Please explain how you intend to effectively police BME dense areas when many within those communities are very hostile to the police force as it is currently constituted. Please explain why the police force have hitherto failed to do this effectively.
Hi HarveyMilk Jnr,
> Why do you insist on being absolutely ridiculous? How can it be anything like plagiarism when I used quotation marks?.
I was having a joke 🙂 hence the friendly smiley 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
> Furthermore your link after that paragraph underscores the point I was making. Yes there are many bilingual people in Belgium and there is an extremely large minority, 35% even higher in many areas that are not bilingual. Governance and policing continues perfectly well which suggests that it wouldn’t be the end of the world to have less than ideal circumstances in the UK.
Where do you get your contentious data? 35% ? Perhaps that figure represents the massive flood of non-European immigrants, the so-called invasion from the Indian sub-continent?
The essentially important aspects are:-
(1) Society needs a police-type force to protect the public.
(2) That force must speak, read and write the language of the public AND the language used in all operational matters by that organisation.
In England, the COMMON language of the public is not Urdu or Portuguese or Farsi but ENGLISH. By co-incidence the police’s operational language is ENGLISH.
Q.E.D. ?
> Nobody is arguing for ‘semi-literate cops’. If an applicant gets a D in my opinion it is not completely beyond the pale to accept that applicant if they had average or above average scores in all other areas of the assessment. That would allow you to attracted a needy demographic and improve their English whilst they were in the job.
Genuine police work, especially for probationers, includes a lot of LEARNING and some reading. There is no time in the working day to educate probationers how to read, write, speak and comprehend English.
Re-read my comment dated September 17, 2013 at 12:16 pm.
>>> The Met, properly resourced, can do its job with all Gay or all Lesbian or all Straight officers and even with all ‘pink’, all ‘black, all ‘white’ or all ‘brown’ officers regardless of the officers’ parent’s ancestry or their own religion. Its all about having basic and essential standards. Uniform policing standards are important.
> Here is where the debate is. Why didn’t you include women in that list? Presumably you accept the need to have women in the police force for the force to be able to carry out their duties effectively. Or can men do the job effectively with no female participation? That is the logical extension of your argument. You go on to call me: ‘ignorant and silly’.
I refer you to my posting dated September 16, 2013 at 1:56 am and my words …. A policeman (including policewomen) …..
> This is what I said: ‘What happens if it takes say 5-10 years. The inference being that I do not believe we can wait 5-10 years which is why changing the language weighting is likely to produce more BME applicants now. You like making quotes up so I’ll be crystal clear: That does not mean you let BME candidates go through with 0%, 5% or 10% competency. If the threshold is 50% and they score 40% and have done well in all other areas of the assessment then i see nothing wrong in allowing them in, providing you bring them up to scratch and ease them into normal duties.
We are not Yanks who exist in a country where everything from presidential speeches downwards is ‘dumbed down’. Example George W Bush. We are not Yanks who keep lowering the standards to be allegedly political correct.
You want to abolish effective standards for racist and political reasons. I say ‘NO‘.
You really don’t get the point which is, if someone has the potential to do well in a job and that person is not entirely up to the entrance grade for the job, then help them by educating them, sponsoring them, encouraging them to rectify their deficiency. DON’T LOWER THE STANDARDS because that means you really think that person does NOT has the ability to ever reach the entrance level for that job. Your argument is effectively wanting to cheat the system because the aspirant candidate is not white – that is racist and politically motivated (as in Labour Party crap).
Lift-up the people, improve the people, don’t lower the standards because lowering the standards does nothing to improve anything – its an admission of failure.
> The reason I think we desperately need more BME officers is because I do not believe a police force which is disproportionately white is best able to carry out their duties in many parts of the country but especially our inner cities.
The Met, like some other police forces, is predominantly white and I suspect still partially racist. If you genuinely want to improve things, then put in your BEST non-whites who will be more than a match for the white crap. What hope has any new non-white copper who can’t properly understand English to flourish in a white dominated and still racist, in parts, police service?
If you want to win a battle, you’ll be more successful putting-in your best troops, not your worse!
> I don’t like patronising people by using capitals but I feel I have to: THAT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE, it is because many ethnic minority communities see the police as the enemy particularly white police officers.
They refuse to engage with them. They don’t typically inform on their own, which makes the job of the police needlessly difficult. Wouldn’t it be useful to have more BME police officers to help combat BME sensitive crimes? Or is the need for a robust admissions test more important?
I’m white. I see some white cops who are deliberately confrontational, nasty, bullying and not adverse to manipulating the law. Some Indian sub-continent Asian coppers do too. I’m sure some of those got-in because of low standards.
To counter that, you need well-educated new cops, not sub-standard ones.
—————————–
The public want a good and effective police service. Which ethnic background delivers that good service is not really important. The public want to have trust in a dependable police ‘service’. No one wants ‘bent’ cops.
Curious Cat.
P.S. I’m not racist.I have good friends from all skin colours, religions, nationalities and backgrounds except Eton.
Harvey you just bang on and on in a blinkered, dogmatic fashion until people give up and with the last word you reckon you’ve won the debate. Two points, we have women police officers because men and women traditionally have sex with one another and certain situations like searches would outrage public decency if not executed by the same sex. The same cannot be said for ethnic communities. It seems that the far left dresses something up in a certain way with virtuous aspirations when actually their intentions are sinister – you want to destroy the state and reckon you can pursue that aim by crippling the police ss a cohesive organisation.
@ Curious Cat
” Please be realistic. You haven’t got a clue which semi-English literate people will become “fantastic officers“. There is no factual basis for your essentially bogus and excessively optimistic assertio ” .
That’s not true because they’re taking a test. If an applicant gets A’s in every section of the test except the written english then that’s an indication that they’d make ‘fantastic officers’. They’d benefit from further training to bring them up to scratch in English. So no it’s not bogus, and it’s not excessively optimistic.
HarvetMilk Jnr.
Every police force/service needs good and decent coppers. That is beyond dispute.
I refer you to my comment dated 16 September 2013 timed 22:04
Finally, if you really want some failed candidates to become police officers and they do well except in their English usage and competency tests, then pay for them to attend adult classes to perfect their English and invite them back for re-testing.
Every employer should invest in their workforce; it is often the organisation’s greatest asset.
Curious Cat
HarveyMilk Jnr
A good reason why the public wants a better educated police force/service is illustrated by the Kevin Maxwell case
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmhaff/67/67vw37.htm
Don’t lower standards because it will let the ‘wrong types’ get in.
Curious Cat
Sorry, I can’t wade through all these comments,, but I wish you, Ted, would learn a little bit more about language learning and ESOL provision (or lack of it). Mother Tongue classes do not stop people learning English. The best educational outcomes for children and families (and therefore the rest of the community too) involve learning in both mother tongue and English. That is a fact. I don’t like Lutfhur but I don’t care if he wants to spend a bit of money on mother tongue. I think you will find the uptake isn’t that great. Many parents now prefer their children to learn Mosque Arabic instead, which is a real shame. I hope there is no council subsidy for that. Anyway, the real scandal is the millions recently taken away from government budgets for ESOL provision. People want to learn English and there is nowhere near enough affordable classes, and there are now very few that have creches attached (and TH sacked most of its creche workers 2 years ago). This badly affects children in the borough.I wish you would cover this story.
Strange comment.
If low uptakes on Mother Tongue…why is he now giving grants of £250k a year?
Do you have any proof there are low uptakes?
And wouldn’t that £250k a year be better spent on ESOL???
At the risk of stating the obvious, the reason why Lutfur is spending £250k per year on mother tongue classes is to reinforce the self-imposed apartheid (meaning “the state of living apart”) in so in vogue among Bangladeshis and other Muslim groups in London. This is not the only initiative on this front though. Jack Straw did the biggest favour to the colonization project (it’s ongoing – watch this space!) when in one of his first acts as Home Secretary in 1997 he abolished the “primary purpose rule” which had previously denied entry to non-EU citizens if they could not prove that their primary purpose in having married a UK resident was not simply to gain entry and residency rights. This rule mainly affected Bangladeshi (and Pakistani) Britons for whom “fetching marriages” are common. This made assimilation far harder because each generation was injected with a top up from their ancestral homeland’s culture, language, attitudes and of course spouses who cannot speak English. Translation services were the next thing – not only did it facilitate communities reluctant to integrate to avoid having to integrate but it also provided a racist employment system whereby the council and other charities and trusts (etc) could say they needed people who were bilingual in English AND Bengali, fully in the knowledge that there are many in the borough who are Bangladeshi and can speak English but hardly any who are white-British and speak Bengali. This meant they could divert public money to fund jobs available only to their own community. Finally, on top of all this, the local mosques encouraged separation based on aspects of the Islamic faith which can be interpreted to mean Muslims should avoid non-Muslims.
I saw a man on London Tonight the other day, a Bangladeshi fellow in his 40s who lived in Newham complaining, in Bengali, about how unfair it was the translation services there were being abolished by Sir Robin Wales. He claimed he had live in the UK for seventeen years but had found it too hard to learn English at all. Either he was lying and the simple explanation for his predicament was that he had never mixed with people who speak English as their first language or he had something wrong with him. If it was the latter, then surely a relative can translate things for him and spare the rest of us the cost of his ignorance.
GM – the comment about Newham is interesting – or, more to the point, I applaud the decision by Robin Wales to provide all council services only in English and see this as (yet another) clear difference between the way that they run things out there and the way that The Despicable Rahman chooses to run things in LBTH.
Tim.
Wrote about this here https://trialbyjeory.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/sir-robin-wales-takes-aim-at-the-race-ridden-politics-of-tower-hamlets/
Indeed you did. It’s one of the first things that came to mind when I read this article.
Grave Maurice has written (September 23, 2013 at 8:00 pm) a very illuminating and thoughtful analysis of LBTH’s woes.
Its about time common sense and clarity arrived in LBTH.
Curious Cat.
I don’t have any proof that there are low uptakes. I could be wrong, it’s only based on my own observations. I always ask students about their family language practices and not very many seem to send their kids to Bangla classes. Many more send them to the Arabic classes where they are supposed to speak, dress, and generally act like Arabs (or what the Imams think Arabs act like). Very sad.
Some of these mosque schools also run Mother Tongue – if they are getting council grants then that’s a bad thing. In fact I guess I don’t trust the Mayor because I assume every project is part of his empire building and influence peddling, so in that regard you may be right to raise concerns.
But Bangla classes don’t need to be pitted against English learning because I think it’s irrelevant. People are perfectly capable of studying more than one language and its shown that educational outcomes are improved when people do. Would the £250k be better spent on ESOL? Probably, but then maybe it would be even better spent on feeding malnourished children or housing the homeless…perhaps the borough’s parks budgets and library budgets would be better spent this way? Luckily I’m not a politician so I don’t have to make these decisions. I’d rather argue defend what exists and fight for an expansion of educational opportunities than to encourage a sense of competition between ‘communities’ over dwindling resources.
The Met Police seem to be suggesting that BME’s are too lazy to study as hard as other groups and/or they are too stupid to compete so the answer is to dumb-down the entrance test. This is rather insulting to anyone wanting to pursue a career in policing.
Back in 2011, lawyer Tom Windsor was asked by Teresa May to look at entry requirements for the police in order to widen the pool of talent for top officers. He claimed then that tests had already been lowered to help black and ethnic minority recruits and that criminal barristers sometimes ‘speak in contemptuous terms’ of the ‘barely literate’ quality of police evidence.
Clearly the exercise failed then as there are still officers with inadequate skills. Now they want to lower the standard further.
Tom Winsor.
I concur with Juliette Kilo’s appraisal.
Does society, i.e ‘we’, really want slovenly sub-standard policing or do we want a high quality service ?
Answers please to
Reed ain Right Standars
Lunden Polise
Nue Skotlun Yadd
ate two ten Broadway
Westminster
London SW1H 0BG.
Curious Cat
The inflexibility around admission tests has over the past 20 years contributed to us having a deficit in our BME officers. That’s fine, lets continue to retain our high standards but you refuse to explain how the police are going to deal with crimes that happen in closed ethnic minority communities.
Asian Grooming? Drug Trafficking? Gun Trafficking surveillance around terrorism all those things require more BME officers. For whatever reasons the ‘cream of the crop’ are not a big enough group so where do you intend getting the BME officers from? Lets continue as we are doing, but don’t expect the police to be as effective as residents demand them to be.
A civilisation is measured not by the rights it grants its majority but the privileges it allows its minorities. Muslim families are as entitled as any other religious group to schools that nurture their children’s faith. Muslim pupils should be educated in Muslim schools because the current system is marginalising them. Teaching Muslim children in a Muslim school would remove the “problem of them being exposed” to values that conflict with Islamic faith. Muslim pupils are disadvantaged and marginalised in the city’s state schools because the cultural heritage of the curriculum is “European and Christian”.
Muslim schools provide an education in accordance with the Muslim beliefs and values, such as providing single-sex schooling after puberty. They are thus a response to the danger of absorption into the dominant culture.
The number of Muslim children is on the increase in Bradford state and church schools. There are lot of schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be opted out as Muslim Academies for proper education. British history from early periods to present day should be taught in all schools. Islamic history from the early period to present day should be part and parcel of the National Curriculum. I think to be fair the Arabic and Persian contributions to the world in medicine, mathematics and other sciences plus their involvement in world affairs should be taught.
The demand for state funded Muslim schools is in accordance with the law of the land. Muslims are not asking for any favour. I set up the first Muslim school in London in 1981 and now there are 188 Muslim schools and only 12 are state funded. I would like to see each and every Muslim child in a state funded Muslim schools and I hope one day my dream would come true. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. Bilingual Muslim children need bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental period. There are few schools for Hindu and Sikh communities. Now even Black community is thinking of setting up their own state funded schools for their own children with black teachers.
You better teach your children in your own schools and let migrant communities teach their children according to their needs and demands.British Establishment and society should concentrate on the evils of their own society and stop trying to change the way of life of Muslims. Muslim community does not want to integrate with the British society, indulging in incivility, anti-social behaviour, drug and knife culture, binge drinking, teenage pregnancies and abortion.
A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. He/she is well versed in standard English, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages so that they do not find themselves cut off from their cultural heritage and are able to enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.
IA
London School of Islamics Trust
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Iftikara,
Have you read any of the responses to your previous post?
If so, how do you think they are relevant to your thoughts?
If not, can I suggest you do so and save everyone writing their comments out again.
Tim.
Iftikhara’s post is ignorant racist drivel (he’s in pretty good company here) but he’s got a point. Since the state supports faith education for Christians there’s no logical reason it shouldn’t for Muslims too. Great. Let’s all head into a future of even more segregation,and bigoted ignorance for our young people.
Oh you don’t need to post that last one, Ted. Iftikara’s post speaks for itself without being slagged off by me.
Dear Iftikara
I am really interested to know more about the many schools you run. You say you set up the first Muslim school in London in 1981 and now there are 188 Muslim schools with 12 being state funded.
Please tell us more because I am sure many of us would love to send our kids to them for a superior education free from evil.
What is the name of the school you run?
The lack of reply is because Iftikara is in fact Mr. Iftikhar Ahmed – no not the one who murdered his daughter Shafilea, for wearing jeans, but wholly a different one (hmm) who runs a rather tatty website called “London School of Islamics Trust” from an “office” registered on Margery Park Road, Forest Gate.
I am reliably informed he has never set up a school nor has any formal relationships with any recognised schools in the UK, nor any qualifying experience or expertise whatsoever relative to education and is widely regarded in the local Muslim community as “a loon”.
He can be seen in this video (alongside David Henshaw of Despatches and “Mujahids”) defending the right of British Muslims to wage “jihad”…
Fascinating article as always, so thanks
It’s certainly a shame that there would be a lowering of standards, though the aim to get a more representative force is commendable.
I would be a little frustrated if I had passed the test to then see later recruits take an easier test though it must be said that this hasn’t happened yet, so fingers crossed alternatives will be considered;
Alternatives could/should be,
1.Issuing past papers to potential candidates, so as they might know what to expect.
2.Recruitment fairs/visits within target areas/schools etc to get more applicants
3.Consideration/review of why particular applicants are failing, these can be cultural reasons not just language and so seeking to inform applicants of the rationale behind the test, the test conditions etc would assist with their revision
4.Setting up of revision classes for recruits to help to get them upto the required standard.
Call me old-fashioned and all that, but how about:
5.Improving the often woeful standards of English amongst the immigrant population.
i.e. Actually tackling the problem rather than pussy-footing around it.
Tim
Colin’s suggestions are excellent. I hope the Met and others carefully and comprehensively implement them.
Curious Cat.